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Original poster

Former Trans Child of Gender Critical Parents (very long). *Trigger warning - descriptions of self harm and suicide* - Title edited by MNHQ

541 replies

pop91 · 26/03/2022 22:33

Hi,

To start I wanna say I'm writing this post in good faith to provide the viewpoint of a Trans person with Gender Critical parents but I know this is the internet and this will probably just be trolled to death but here goes.

I had a pretty regular 'happy' family setup, and apparently first told my parents of my identity at just 5yrs old but the first I remember is at 8yrs old when I refused to go by my 'very gendered' birth name but my parents insisted on using it especially publicly.

My parents were never particularly strict on gender roles in the home - my sister would wear my dad's glasses and jacket and stomp around with his briefcase in hand and my brother had an emo phase with heels and mascara to match and apart from some grumbling from my father it was never the biggest issue in our house.

Sexuality was different though even though my father would class himself as a pragmatic centrist, barring a socialist university phase, and my mother a card-carrying progressive New Labour type whose Best Friend was the most flamboyant gay man and an Aunt who lived with her 'friend' until she passed. There was an uncomfortableness with sexuality where both my parents would call it a lifestyle choice and opposed gay marriage - cut to three years ago when my older brother came out as bisexual and last month the youngest sister as a lesbian Grin but rest assured the other 3 siblings remain firmly 'normal.'

Back to me and by 12 I had started puberty and was experiencing debilitating gender dysphoria - I would look into the mirror and see nothing that matched my brain. I would continue to feel this way until the bullying and dysphoria got so bad that one night I climbed into my bathtub with a kitchen knife hoping I could change my body to fit my brain somehow I managed not to perform self-surgery in my bathtub.

A couple of months later I came clean to my parents, I wasn't expecting a big hug but I wasn't expecting what came next. They ignored it as if I had told them what I wanted for dinner, they decided they didn't hear what I had said at all.

Over the next year, the internet became my friend as I found ways to affirm my gender by doing hidden things at first and then slowly more outward things. I came out to my siblings and although they found it confusing my oldest brother and sister were a godsend who I wouldn't have survived without, They helped me pick out a new haircut and new clothes and we came up with a new name.

I came out in school and sure there was bullying but I was feeling so Euphoric that it almost didn't matter. When the teachers found out they informed my parents and that's when everything changed! My parents sat me down and said I was just confused. They threw out my new clothes, anything that I used to affirm my gender, even my shoes and magazines then they took my bedroom door off and took away my laptop and phone and forced my older siblings to refer to me by my birth name, my older brother and sister stopped supporting me and I lost my only family support and anything that was helping me.

Eventually, when they realised everything they had done hadn't worked and I still felt the same way, they decided to try both religious and non-religious conversion therapy which left permanent scarring to my mental health and I frequently have nightmares about it.

At 15 I had my first suicide attempt and my parents forced me to lie and say it was due just to bullying at school but that wasn't true it was the dysphoria and conversion therapy that was killing me.

From 15 to 17 I had multiple suicide attempts and after the third one, my parents finally allowed me to stop the conversion therapy but still forcibly live as my 'biological' sex.

Eventually, I managed to get to a great University and at 18 I socially transitioned and by 20 I had started hormones. I now have a job that provides me financial stability and have an amazing partner, with 2 children from a prior relationship that I now consider like my own. We are also now having a baby very soon.

My mother now describes herself as Gender Critical and frequently posts online about how she will be unable to see her grandchildren because of her views, which is true as I will not allow my parents to see either my child or stepchildren.

My parents continue to refuse to acknowledge my identity and pronouns. The last time we talked, she said she believes I am just gay, which neither makes sense considering my partner's gender nor the fact she also has a terrible relationship with my lesbian sister and bisexual brother who also rarely allows his child to visit my mum, due to her comments about their sexualities.

I finally have the support back of all my siblings and we do frequently gather without my parents. I hope one day my parents change their minds but honestly I don't hold much hope and I don't know if I could forgive what they did to me.

A lot of online trans activists wish trans children for Gender Criticals but I don't, it wasn't very nice at all. If you're going to ask if I think kids should transition, the answer is I don't know as I didn't transition as a child and a social transition helped plenty for me.

Well that's it I think, just the perspective and experience of a trans person with Gender Critical parents, feel free to ask any reasonable questions or respectful questions. Smile

OP posts:
WarriorN · 27/03/2022 09:22

You don't think body dysmorphia is different to gender dysphoria especially as gender dysphoria often presents so early on?

Gender dysphoria starts early simply as kids latch on to likes and dislikes and then quickly begin to absorb from media and those around them what's acceptable or not. My two year old was pointing at strange creatures in a book and calling them mummy or daddy based on their large eyelashes or muscular build.

You'll see how it happens with your own child.

This process is amplified by cultural norms and rigid stereotypes as well as underlying homophobia. If a boy starts to want to wear dresses this is discouraged. And of course they want it more. Then think their body is the issue.

My body (face) dysmorphia started very young. I remember being around 5 or 6. I have a mild skin condition that kids would notice as different.

My friend's daughter has a cleft palate and started to become aware of her differences when she was 3.

In the 80's I remember a little boy being mercilessly picked on by boys for playing in the home corner, standing in flocks of tears and saying he wished he was a girl so he could play. These cultural norms run deep.

You keep saying you had to wear certain clothes etc. clearly a very stereotypical household.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 27/03/2022 09:17

Why should the 1% dictate the terms of the reality of the 99%. Why should we be told we must change the definition of our words because you need validation.

Why should 5% of the UK's population (black) tell the world they can't use the N-word, it's been used for so long and just because they don't wanna be hurt by a term? and they don't feel validated by it?

Why should 5% of the UK's population (South Asian) tell the world they can't use the P-word, it's been used for so long and just because they don't wanna be hurt by a term? and they don't feel validated by it?

Why should 2% of the UK's population (gay) tell the world they can't use the F-word, it's been used for so long and just because they don't wanna be hurt by a term? and they don't feel validated by it?

Why should 51% of the UK's population (gay) tell the world they can't use the B-word, it's been used for so long and just because they don't wanna be hurt by a term? and they don't feel validated by it?

Not one of your examples make sense by comparison. Not using offensive slurs is not the same as correctly sexing someone.
An equivalency would be not calling women bitches or slags.

It's more than just Validation, It's about how terms can hurt especially when they are used vindictively against people

What, like TERF?

WarriorN · 27/03/2022 09:09

no, I believe gender is real bc I 'feel' it inside me.

I'm sorry, this is incredibly sexist.

This is what feminists fought against for years.

Aretina · 27/03/2022 09:08

@AssignedBlobbyAtBirth

What you feel in your head is not innate. It is a result of childhood trauma or societal experiences or influences. You are male or female because of your sexed body and nothing else Male and female are facts and it is hard luck if anyone finds those descriptions offensive. I find the language you use offensive. Cis is offensive Pretending to be the opposite sex can be deceitful if other people are forced to engage in the pretense
This, exactly.

What you feel in your head is also totally subjective. A man cannot feel that he is a woman, because he does not know how it feels to be a woman. All he can feel is discordant within himself.

Aretina · 27/03/2022 09:05

I do not believe that this poster is genuine. Too many things are jarring.

But for what it's worth: you can accept that certain words are offensive to people of colour, gay people, or people with special needs. Why can you not accept that certain words are offensive to women too?

It's none of my business how you choose to identify in your own life, but it IS my business when that impinges on MY life.

AssignedBlobbyAtBirth · 27/03/2022 09:05

What you feel in your head is not innate. It is a result of childhood trauma or societal experiences or influences. You are male or female because of your sexed body and nothing else
Male and female are facts and it is hard luck if anyone finds those descriptions offensive. I find the language you use offensive. Cis is offensive
Pretending to be the opposite sex can be deceitful if other people are forced to engage in the pretense

marvellousmaple · 27/03/2022 08:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

donquixotedelamancha · 27/03/2022 08:56

Rinatinabina

So true, I will try to do better. There are exceptions to this: for example when rapists identify as trans, they obviously aren't.

Also, no true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.

Rinatinabina · 27/03/2022 08:52

@donquixotedelamancha

They describe themselves as GC. Maybe inform such people that they aren't welcome then!

Genuine question: who is in favour of gender stereotypes but describes themselves as gender critical (the opposite term)? Is it just your parents you mean here? They don't seem to have a very consistent world view from what you mean.

It’s ok they have an internal feeling that they are GC. GC is anyone who feels they are gender critical. Who needs stuff like words that have stable meanings pah pah thats for rightwing nutjobs.
Rinatinabina · 27/03/2022 08:47

You want me to go around telling people how to identify? 🤔

donquixotedelamancha · 27/03/2022 08:44

They describe themselves as GC. Maybe inform such people that they aren't welcome then!

Genuine question: who is in favour of gender stereotypes but describes themselves as gender critical (the opposite term)? Is it just your parents you mean here? They don't seem to have a very consistent world view from what you mean.

donquixotedelamancha · 27/03/2022 08:41

You're dictating offence for a group you are not a part of. And you see no problem with that?

Making someone upset is not the same as a term being considered offensive by society. The vast bulk of people would not accept that being called a man (for example) when someone is born male is not the equivalent of calling someone a ni**r.

Moreover you are on a form discussing public policy implications where clear language matters. That's different from calling an individual transwoman a man, which is generally frowned upon because it is rude.

mudgetastic · 27/03/2022 08:37

Oh and I am going to add

I think that through the way I have lived my life I have done a lot of good to help dismantle gender stereotypes . For example technical women are now seen as a great asset in my organisation. Women now stay when 30 years ago they left as quickly as they were recruited

donquixotedelamancha · 27/03/2022 08:25

@pop91

OP your parents are not gender critical feminists. Gender critical feminism is the idea that gender stereotypes are deeply harmful to women (and men but feminism is about women) and need to be radically deconstructed to liberate women.

For example GC feminists would say the idea particular clothes are male or female (except in cut) is silly.

You will see some posts on here from people who do believe stereotypes because the forum has attracted a range of people who oppose self-ID but they are not feminists.

GC people want you to be able to live your life and wear what you want. Where they might differ from you is (and there will be a range of views around this):

  • They don't want biological men to be able to simply 'identify' to get into vulnerable women's spaces like prisons.
  • They want there to be much better MH provision so that permanent, drastic treatments for GD (like surgery and hormones) become a last resort.
  • They don't want biological men in women's sports where doing so gives an advantage e.g. archery should be mixed, 200m sprint should be segregated.
mudgetastic · 27/03/2022 08:22

So interesting

T was only after the bath tub Where our paths started to diverge

You had internet , I didn't

So I had to find my own way without a trans supporting community

So I have found my own path in life that is physically much healthier than yours, whilst you however appear to have absolutely no benefits over my route to happiness

I also had "gender critical " parents

They really helped show me that gender was a pile of shit to be ignored , whereas you have embraced it

You live your life , I love mine but when you are using your life to influence others towards an path involving unnecessary physical harm for no gain I will stand up and say your life choice may work for you but it's not a good choice , not recommended or necessary

, and I will tell you that ,you shouldn't be standing up as a role model

you should be instead asking why you took a route that will shorten your life over a route without those limitations

334bu · 27/03/2022 08:11

You're dictating offence for a group you are not a part of.

I must remember this quote, I think it could be very useful in this debate where members of the opposite sex tell us so often, that we are a subset of our own sex.

LolaLouLou · 27/03/2022 08:06

Why is it OK for you to use language that many women find deeply offensive - cis - in a previous post?

When you a walking down the street, or sitting in a cafe or meeting with friends. Do you think they percieve your (your friends, the waitress etc) as a woman or a trans woman? Is this question offensive to you? It is not meant to be - I am genuinely curious.

In terms of whether women should police the views or behaviour of other women (such as your mother) - that isn't our job or role on society.

lightisnotwhite · 27/03/2022 08:03

You’re right about certain words not being used as they are racial slurs. One group putting down another

But we still use black and white to describe people. Because otherwise how do you describe the problem of white supremacy or Black Lives Matter? You still need male and female, man and woman to describe the two sexes.

I think I’m white actually because of my very white cultural upbringing but other people see my (a gran) Indian heritage and assume I’m Asian. I’ve been called the P word.
I get it’s upsetting when you feel something and others see you as something else. What I have learnt though it’s the assumptions that annoy me; I can speak another language, I might have visited the country, I eat certain foods.
The stereotypes are the problem not the words defining things.

LittleWhingingWoman · 27/03/2022 07:58

Also a little reminder - many of us here are from ethnic minorities. You aren't talking to an audience of white right wing women even though Twitter tells you otherwise.

NotTerfNorCis · 27/03/2022 07:57

If you don't see yourself as a woman then you aren't a woman

But by the same logic if you don't see yourself as an adult, are you a child; if you don't see yourself as human, are you another species; if you don't accept the colour of your skin, is it another colour? The answer to all those things is no - so why should sex be any different?

LittleWhingingWoman · 27/03/2022 07:55

Have you informed your transactivist community that sending rape and death threats to women who don't want men in their intimate spaces isn't welcome? It is it just us you want to lecture?

Original poster
pop91 · 27/03/2022 07:54

@Testingprof

Btw Nigerian is not an ethnicity. Black African would be an ethnicity. I notice you use white and not the country for white but you specify country of origin for the other ‘ethnicities’. Why is that?
Btw Nigerian is not an ethnicity. Black African would be an ethnicity

Literal Brain Rot!
are you actually doing this intentionally now?

I notice you use white and not the country for white but you specify country of origin for the other ‘ethnicities’. Why is that?

because I have not spent the time with my mother to work out exactly what kind of white she is. I'll be sure to the next time she berates me.

Now fix your brain rot or I will stop replying.

OP posts:
Original poster
pop91 · 27/03/2022 07:50

@Rinatinabina

I haven’t read the rest but your parents weren’t gender critical. They were mainly just homophobic and believed in gender conforming behaviour which is not what gender critical feminists tend to believe. It’s actually the opposite of what most gender critical women on these boards believe in, meh to gender but Sex is a material reality which is immutable. Sorry but thats just true.

It’s really odd how many people seem to believe that people they call “gender critical” are trying to force people to conform to gender stereotypes. No wonder people keep associating feminists with religious nutcases, they don’t actually know what gender critical means.

They describe themselves as GC.

Maybe inform such people that they aren't welcome then!

OP posts:
Original poster
pop91 · 27/03/2022 07:49

@Testingprof

Man is not offensive. The N word definitely is.

I understand Gender Dysphoria it still doesn’t explain why being called gentleman is not offensive for me as a woman but is to you. You aren’t explaining or even attempting to just saying by being trans being misgendered is incredibly painful but being misgendered when you are not trans is obviously not painful. Why? Exactly the same thing is happening. Well actually the trans persons biological truth is being spoken but in the case of the person who is not trans surely it is worse as it’s a slur because they aren’t that sex at all? Using your own logic…

Man is not offensive. The N word definitely is

You're dictating offence for a group you are not a part of.
And you see no problem with that?

I understand Gender Dysphoria it still doesn’t explain why being called gentleman is not offensive for me as a woman but is to you. You aren’t explaining or even attempting to just saying by being trans being misgendered is incredibly painful but being misgendered when you are not trans is obviously not painful. Why? Exactly the same thing is happening. Well actually the trans persons biological truth is being spoken but in the case of the person who is not trans surely it is worse as it’s a slur because they aren’t that sex at all? Using your own logic

You don't understand Gender Dysphoria! That's the problem here!

Imagine if you will that you were a person of colour and of mixed heritage and felt deeply you were a person of colour and of mixed heritage and someone came up to you and insisted you were white and continued to even after you corrected them. And having explained the circumstances they then continued to deny you by saying 'you're actually white passing' you might then find this person to be offensive and disrespectful.

When a trans person tells you they are not the gender you have assigned them and you not only refuse to respect that but go on to outwardly insult the person by claiming they are the gender you have assigned them they for instance feel highly disrespected.

You don't need to use the preferred gendered terms for such a person to validate them you just need to not use the ones you've been told are offensive. for example: have a good day vs have a good day sir/maam.
You're not violating your views by using ungendered language.

and finally, as I've now REPEATEDLY stated I don't believe a full sex change is possible just a partial one!

Now please stop being obtuse!
You KNOW why it hurts and more so than that you would like to use it to hurt!

OP posts:
Testingprof · 27/03/2022 06:39

Btw Nigerian is not an ethnicity. Black African would be an ethnicity. I notice you use white and not the country for white but you specify country of origin for the other ‘ethnicities’. Why is that?

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