Former Trans Child of Gender Critical Parents (very long). *Trigger warning - descriptions of self harm and suicide* - Title edited by MNHQ

have you done the same for the rape and death threats that we get for challenging you on your views?
@pop91 rape and death threats from gender critical feminists?

I'm not suggesting that I disbelieve trans people get threatened but where is the evidence any of those are from GC feminists? Bearing in mind that you mistakenly categorise your mother as one.

So after reading 256 posts.

If your parents had let you wear dresses, and changed your name, all would be well?

That makes them the exact opposite of Gender Critical.

So I can't really trust that you really know what it is you are talking about.

And stop calling us CIS if you want to go anywhere near us not calling you men or women. We are not subsets of our own sex.

But I cannot get over the N word being offensive but there is no such thing as race. How does someone hold both things in their head at the same time?

In fact as I think this thread may be deleted at some point, I'm going to save @AlexaShutUp's perfectly articulated post.

Good point

If I say that a cat is something that looks like a cat, you would probably know what I meant because we already have an accepted definition of a cat. If I say that a pilofin is something that looks like a pilofin, you would be none the wiser because you would still have no idea what a pilofin actually is. You cannot define something in terms of itself.

When you say that a woman is anyone who feels like a woman, or a man is anyone who feels like a man, you are essentially relying on the age old accepted definitions of "man" and "woman" because we all know what these words really mean. On the one hand you are clearly accepting that there is already a shared understanding of what man/woman means. On the other hand, you are rejecting that same definition.

This.

They're trying to provide a distraction.

I have never seen a gender critical person making rape or death threats against a trans person.

Should that happen, I will absolutely condemn it.

Hello OP, are you really saying you get rape and death threats from gender critical feminists?

Sorry are you saying that gender critical feminists have been threatening to rape people?

Op can you stop flinging the "rape" word around please? It's distressing.
Honestly, you'd be better served actually engaging with the questions being asked rather trying to post honestly rather than using this space for opportunities to insult people.

“Eyesofdisarray

Doesn't pregnancy trigger a transman's dysphoria?
Genuine question; wondered for a while..”

I agree, I too have been wondering about whether dysphoria wouldn’t be triggered either when a trans man becomes pregnant, or when a trans woman inseminates a woman? - seeing as these functions are at the heart of the born sexes across all species of mammals.

Like if your brain views things a certain way but your eyes view it in another.

There would be a severe impairment in your visual cortex if this was true. Doctors would be working to try and fix it or at least allow your brain to work out what is really there, rather than, for example, spraying everything black so it matches your brain's representation of it.

You seem quite insistent that trans people have impaired brains. Is this something you really believe?

Op when you say "it's not helpful to address someone by terms that cause them distress" then tell someone to "fix your brain rot " are you being deliberately unhelpful? Why?

I have not read the full thread yet. There is a lot of confusion in this OP and in the subsequent posts.

However I think titchy got it in one.

That's the difficult thing when people identify as something - often they're not the thing they identity as.

It is certainly apparent on this thread. That is the very issue with forcing open the definition of words so the word/s can be applied to just anyone. Those words lose meaning and then are used to describe people as something they are not.

Of course, people can describe themselves as anything. Doesn’t mean they actually are.

I have repeatedly provided a definition for Man & Woman and wheater you accept that definition is up to you.

No, you haven't actually provided a definition at all. You have provided a circular statement that doesn't define the terms man and woman at all.

If I say that a cat is something that looks like a cat, you would probably know what I meant because we already have an accepted definition of a cat. If I say that a pilofin is something that looks like a pilofin, you would be none the wiser because you would still have no idea what a pilofin actually is. You cannot define something in terms of itself.

When you say that a woman is anyone who feels like a woman, or a man is anyone who feels like a man, you are essentially relying on the age old accepted definitions of "man" and "woman" because we all know what these words really mean. On the one hand you are clearly accepting that there is already a shared understanding of what man/woman means. On the other hand, you are rejecting that same definition.

If you really want people to take your arguments seriously, your definitions need to meet a certain minimum logical consistency. You need to be able to define what a woman is, and what a man is, without referencing those same terms. Otherwise it becomes abundantly clear that there is no substance to your position.

My definition of woman is adult female human. Your definition seems to include some people who are biologically male, so I would like to know exactly what the essence of "woman" is that makes someone such, without it being defined in terms of "feeling like" an adult human female, because a male bodied person clearly couldn't possibly know what that felt like.

I'm trying to understand, honestly I am. But in the absence of a satisfactory definition, the argument just goes round in circles.

Oh hang on, apologies
define 'woman' as either someone who is physically female or someone who is physically male but who sees themself as to be physically female

You answered with this.
So by definition, a male woman is someone who has an incorrect mental image of their physical self?
But absolutely tons of people look in the mirror and it doesn't match what they feel they should look like. Why does this mean there is a special essence called gender?

My disabled niece has an image of herself as not disabled. Does that make her so?

Case by case basis doesn't mean individuals. It means things like no males competing in female sports or no males in female, single SEX spaces.

The 'case' is sports, and keeping them single sex to give females fair and safe competition is a legitimate aim.

The safety, privacy and dignity of females is also a legitimate aim, which is why we are allowed single sex spaces and services.

I know this isn’t the point of the post, but I have to ask: do (some) women really match their mascara to the colour of their shoes? I’m not in to make up and I’m not sure if this is a thing?

Good lord, OP. You've been up ALL NIGHT trying to educate feminists?

Best get a bit of sleep, love.

“for example: In your mind, you are 5'11 with a beard, a flat chest and a dick but in reality, you're 5'2 with no beard and boobs and a vagina.

^ that disconnect makes someone trans.”

My daughter is 5’4, a size 10, and believes she’s obese. She obsessively goes to the gym yet remains convinced that every part of her is huge. This causes huge dysmorphia, huge disconnect, and has taken a lot of work to get her to eat somewhat normally instead of constantly restricting and trying to lose weight.

This disconnect isn’t evidence of her actually being fat, it is a pervasive mental illness. It’s very difficult to understand that your brain can lie to you like this.

I don’t really understand how one type of mental illness - gender dysphoria (which I had as a teen btw) - is now embraced as real, where others - anorexia, body dysmorphia) are seen as what they are - mental illnesses that, unsupported, lead to irrational and potentially life changing choices.

From your posts you sound happy with yourself, and I’m pleased for you. You had a rough time with your parents, you deserve to be at peace with yourself.

At the same time though it seems as though the way your parents handled things have likely contributed to your gender dysphoria, in the way that many trans men have a background of trauma and (in my case) neurodivergance, and embracing their transness often means ignoring the root cause of this incongruence.

Personally I’d like to see disphoric girls (autistic, traumatised etc) receiving good quality therapy and being helped to accept themselves in the body they have until such a point when their brains have fully developed and they are capable of understanding the consequences of transitioning.
I was into my twenties before I started to feel ok with myself. I’m now approaching 50 and truly happy in my own skin, and hugely relieved that I did my teenage years 30+ years ago and not now.

I have nothing against anyone wanting to live as they see fit, and I believe everyone deserves to live free of discrimination.
I’d like to think that I’m free to live my life without being coerced into participating in gender stuff, personally or on a societal level, but that’s proving impossible.

Accepting men as women feels like a spectacularly risky move, yet here we are, it seems the whole world is desperately trying to embrace this, and that can mean nothing good for women (as is so often the case when men are involved).

Why are the words woman and girls being removed from any reference to female biology just because of a minority's poor mental health?

They aren't and they shouldn't be if it's sex-specific then either use 'Female' or better still use 'Women & some Trans Men.'
Stop hurting us and our mental health will improve

Did you not get the TRA memmo?
We can't use 'women and some trans men' because it upsets the males coz they feel 'excluded' and invalidates the non binaries

The males also tell us we can't use female to describe, ya know, females, because they are 'triggered' by being reminded that they are not female.🤔

OP why do you think "female = woman" ? When we say that it's called transphobic.

And you haven't explained what you believe a woman to be?

I'll ask one more time before concluding that you don't know, or can't answer because it would reveal something regressive, unpleasant or fundamentally right-wing about your beliefs.

What is a woman? What is the common factor between all women?

Read seven hex's description of a homophobic sexist bullied childhood.

Painfully clear how seven eventually transitioned.

sevenhex.com/