‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

How sad. @CatherinaJTV left before bothering to tell us what 'feeling comfortable as a woman,' means. This seemed to be the bedrock of her argument therefore she has rendered the rest of her thoughts meaningless by failing to provide analysis definition which would allow anyone to understand what she's talking about.

Catherina also seemed to be suggesting that we should force women into spaces with men to reduce the risk of women attacking each other (ripping off each other's clothes while pulling each other's hair and covered in foam too, eh, Catherina?).

I'm going to go into the penguin enclosure at the zoo tomorrow. Can someone send in the lions so I'm less likely to be eaten by penguins?

Actually, make it the shark. Then sweet Catherina can jump it.

I have a provisional answer to Terfydactyl's question.

A man is an adult human being whose safety and sense of security matter when they come into conflict with male human beings.

Ha.

Something tells me that Catherina knows very well what a man is.

On reflection, I realise in loos that I purposely give other women as much space and privacy as possible and they have always done the same to me. It's like an etiquette that it's fine to chat with a friend or family member when using the loo, fine to point out if something is broken/missing to help other women, but the loos are ultimately about going to the loo, changing sanitary items, hand washing.

No head tilting, fake chat, or swirling of skirts needed!

[quote 5zeds]@Mamapep yes sorry you also mentioned trying on clothes at a vintage clothes fair. I think it would be more normal in a place where people were trying an outfit and coming out into a common space to look at it. That’s not really the same as a big standard () public toilet though is it? I find it weird that it’s happening only to a very small number of the women posting and the rest are frankly shocked that they’ve never witnessed this toilet chatter.[/quote]
When the toilets thing was mentioned, I did immediately think bar, clubs, party, weddings (I’ve been to weddings where I don’t know anyone except the couple, and also huge weddings with 500+ guests). All spaces where people are dressed up. I don’t think complimenting people in these spaces is unusual.

I wouldn’t compliment someone wearing casual clothes, or in a coffee shop toilets, because why would you? But there’s plenty of bathroom-mirror-situations-involving-strangers where I would.

So if male transitioners/transwomen are involved, it is acceptable to prevent men who might shout at them sharing their space. There was zero concern that separating shouting man from society would take the onus off shouting man to be better.

But if we separate male convicts (including males convicted of sexual offences) from female victims, we're taking the onus away from the male convicts to do better?

Something a bit odd here...

In my younger days I was (occasionally) complimented on my hair and clothes but to the best of my recollection never while in the loo. Likewise I have commented on someone's dress/shoes/ other aspect of their appearance but not while in the toilet. But I'm not very good at 'womaning' because I drink beer and like football so I've probably been doing it wrong all these years.

most violence in prisons is nt woman on nt woman
You could just say "women" or "transwomen"
We are women not "not trans women"
We already have a word for us, no need to rectify.

I was wearing some well polished Grafters army style boots with steel toe and shank.

and a few blokes at work endlessly admired my trainers and kept asking about my puma, vans etc.

does that count I dont think I have ever had a woman say anything about my shoes.

Maybe we both choose rubbish lipsticks.

Must try harder

I just feel the urge to say no one has ever complemented me on my lipstick whom I either didnt know or was male.

and its certainly never happened in a toilet that would be weird as fuck, the only conversations I have had in toilets go along the lines of "the locks broken", "theres no bog roll in there", "none of the dryers work" etc.

and no one ever anywhere has asked me if I have spare sanitary products, thats a very odd request to make.

I have complemented people on their nails but only sales assistants during a transaction, I would never randomly say it to someone I have no reason to interact with no matter how nice their nails are, that'll just be odd.

es, I understand that that's your reasoning, but I don't buy that, sorry.

Since it's not in your gift to hand over female people's rights it doesn't really matter if you buy it or not.

If you as a female person consent to using mixed sex spaces then that's your body, your decision, your consent, go to it.

While we have female people who cannot access mixed sex spaces, there are going to have to be single sex spaces for them and the job is for everyone else to realise that equality, inclusion and tolerance for others applies to everyone and not just to their mates.

If you put women into segregated spaces, you are taking the onus off the men to be better (plus there is a risk due to WoW violence).

Did you just argue that a) women attack women at anything like the rate that men attack women and b) women should be forced into spaces with men to create an "onus" on men not to attack them?

We're in such a deranged brave new world right now that I can't actually be certain that you're not trolling. I think you are, especially with the carefully crafted feminine name, but I actually can't be sure. There are so many earnest lunatics right now who wouldn't be.

All I can say is, no wonder Putin weaponised you guys. I don't know what took him so long.

@Mamapep yes sorry you also mentioned trying on clothes at a vintage clothes fair. I think it would be more normal in a place where people were trying an outfit and coming out into a common space to look at it. That’s not really the same as a big standard () public toilet though is it? I find it weird that it’s happening only to a very small number of the women posting and the rest are frankly shocked that they’ve never witnessed this toilet chatter.

And THAT'S when we are supposed to go "Oh ok then. Come on in".

Men are non-women . Or non-trans men. If they identify as the sex they are born in they are CIS men, yadda fucking yadda bollocks to infinity.

I've given you my answer. I am sorry if that doesn't convince you

So because you and others cant convince us that men are women, I'm not prepared to give up my very few single sex spaces.

You sure with the millions of words in over 7000 languages you can't find a better definition of woman than "feel most comfortable as"

Ok let's change the question, what is a man?

Been using women's toilets for years (I'm over 70) and never seen anyone there I thought might be a man.

Nobody really thinks the answer to safety for women is to remove sex segregated spaces, except MRAs who think men are hard done by.

Catherina's solution seems to be 'do feminism, as you've been doing for many many years, except that bit'.

I literally gave an example of a public space that wasn’t a wedding.

If you put women into segregated spaces, you are taking the onus off the men to be better
Bloody hell, I missed that one.

These chatbots are getting very good, but sometimes they really do slip up badly...

Well, I've just got back from eating my tea...

we are not talking about men or criminals. We are talking about women (trans and not trans).
Catherina must know that transwomen offend at the same rate as (other) men.

And my comments about how rights are sometimes like pie got me lots of waffle about her lesbian massage therapist, and no substantive answers abut sport or prisons.

I didn't get an answer to my question about why would let people into the ladies' loos if they of the bodily sex that can wank into the sink.

It's not like I keep score or anything...

Or a department store or Starbucks…sorry I thought you’d be able to extrapolate. My bad.