‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

If a TW came into a female only changing room and took their clothes off we’d know. And they’d be shown the door sharpish. It’s a myth that this has been going on for years and no one noticed.

@Dinosauria good point, if I think about it my 12 year old DS would not be happy sharing with girls. It shows yet again that sex matters and single sex facilities are needed in schools.

I wear trousers most of the time, but doubt my male colleagues would like me in their facilities. I'm a woman regardless of clothing.

Do you wear trousers @maddy68 and use the mens?

Plus in schools boys can stay out of the girls loos. I'd say the boys should be mixed gender, but even this should be taken with precaution as children need safeguarding.

Yes. And when all the men have learned to behave properly around transwomen & NBs...

... they can still stay out of women's toilets, for our privacy & dignity.

Thank you & goodnight.

Transwomen in men’s toilets so the men Do Better.

Thanks Cath!

One thing that really fucking boils my piss though. Is being in a long freaking queue for the ladies which is populated with boys who are old enough to go to the toilet by themselves. As soon as they can unzip, pee, shake, zip up and wash their hands they should go in the men's.

Most kids can do this by age 4. I wouldn’t send a preschooler into the men’s toilets alone and wouldn’t expect most parents to.

What’s needed is more family toilets so parents can supervise their children. The answer isn’t sending small children into public toilets unsupervised and alone.

And saying that men have been using women's spaces for decades without women's consent and getting away with it is not what I would call a winning argument. Many of us are only now speaking out because we didn't dare before. It's not because we didn't mind.

Yes, and worth bearing in mind I still wouldn't confront a male in a woman's space. I am angry, but I'm also very aware of the risks involved in confronting males.

In a nutshell, Grayson Perry, Fionne Orlander, Miranda Yardley, and other transwomen use the men's.

Thing X has been done by Group Y for Z years.

Is not the argument they're making either. It's

Thing X has been done by Group Y for Z years. Why are you suddenly bothered?!

Which assumes that anyone outside of Group Y must accept it. Which assumes that anything done for any length of time must be okay. Which assumes that no one has been bothered by Thing X being done before. Which assumes that objections aren't valid if they're not voiced immediately.

All of these assumptions are false.

Duration tells us nothing about how right or wrong something is. Objections not being voiced tells us nothing about whether there are objections. And history is just chock full of examples of particular groups doing things others object to and getting away with it. For centuries. Millenia even. And history too is filled with examples of uprisings against wrongdoings only after many years of enduring wrongs. There comes a moment when enduring is more harmful than resisting. I think that's where many of us are now.

And saying that men have been using women's spaces for decades without women's consent and getting away with it is not what I would call a winning argument. Many of us are only now speaking out because we didn't dare before. It's not because we didn't mind.

Of course they have I'm not sure I understand vyour confusion. Do you think someone with a female appearance would go into the men's?

Just thought about the paper towel thing, and frankly I feel a bit sick.

It's of course irrelevant for the topic of this thread whether women compliment the makeup or hair of women they don't know in public spaces. What is more relevant is how often this happens, i.e., if this is very common behaviour which somehow might be a thing many people mention as a personal experience from using public women's toilets or if it is fairly uncommon.

I think it is the latter, but individuals who don't use women's toilets might not know that it is uncommon, but imagine it to be so that it would be used in an example of a typical trans woman experience in women's loos.

If you put women into segregated spaces, you are taking the onus off the men to be better

This is rather shocking. Most men don't attack women to begin with, but those predators who do will not try to be better if they have free access to their prey. There is no learning process here.

Extend this argument to all groups at risk of being attacked by other groups and you can then clearly see how cruel such an approach would be. Pedophiles, for instance, will not try to do better if child safeguarding is relaxed.

'Maybe it’s something men do in their toilets and like many males, transwomen and otherwise, they project their behaviour onto us'

I think it's the opposite. Men never do it and some people think it's a 'womany' thing to do.

You know what, all women are individuals that might start conversations in different ways.
That's why I was very careful to say 'I' and 'in my experience... ' and 'tend to'. But thank you for asking.

That’s a verrrrry long dinner you’re having @CatherinaJTV

tabbycatstripy
The paper towel thing I still think is downright odd.

Maybe it’s something men do in their toilets and like many males, transwomen and otherwise, they project their behaviour onto us