‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

I like it when women swish their hair in slow motion from one shoulder to the other, I think only women can do that.

Yes I get that. This idea of gender is foreign to me in almost every way. Listening to these people describe how it feels to ‘be a woman’ perplexes me. It’s like I’m too busy being a woman to perform femininity.

I get the feeling we are supposed to think Tw are doing “woman” more authentically than those of us who menstruate, birth, breast feed, and menopause as part of our lived experience while getting on with being a person. I’m utterly unremarkable among my friends but reading some of this nonsense we’d all be gender nonconformity because the “gender” being acted out is like no woman I know.

There is a trans person who worked in my local Debenhams in the ladies department though. I generally avoided if they were in the changing rooms as I don’t really like changing with unknown men/penis having people around. Wouldn’t mind in one of the changing rooms with walls and doors etc but it was a curtain type of changing room. Closed down now though.

For the women saying it doesn't bust you - do you understand what AGPs are and do you think all TW are the same? Are you aware that a sizeable number of men who say they are TW are straight men who have a fetish for invading your privacy and for masturbating in women's toilets? Are you ok with these men being in the same toilet young girls?

Do you understand that there have already been assaults in bathrooms by TW of young girls?

Does it still not bother you, and if not, why not?

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4002789/morrisons-sex-attack-girl-fife-transgender-katie-dolatowski/

I’ve spotted men in women’s toilets for years. I felt mildly embarrassed for them but did my best to get in and out as quickly as possible. Nobody ever asked if we minded, just like everything else. Now that we’re under siege, and I’m older and less of a pushover, I’m done with it. So yeah, we notice. It’s obvious.

It is a common occurrence in our local city. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. But I understand it maybe an issue for other women and I can't ignore their concerns.

Speak for yourself but don't presume to open up women and girls spaces and endanger our daughters.

Women at the knicker factory objecting to Hayley Cropper using the women's toilets was in fact a subplot in Coronation Street.

The women objecting (I think it was led by Leanne Battersby's mum) were portrayed as bigoted, and ignorant, and Hayley was tiny and vulnerable.

If those episodes had been broadcast using an actual male transitioner instead of a female actress, they'd have had a very different effect on viewers.

I’m laughing at the lipstick chat honestly what on Earth?

I've spent a lot of time in alternative bars over the last thirty years. I've never been in a bathroom with a TW and not know they were a TW.

I never minded before because I assumed they were gay men.

The transvestites I knew didn't use the women's toilets.

"Passing" is a bit of a subjective word imo. I've never met a TW who looked like a real woman. It didn't mean they weren't aesthetically interesting looking. They just didn't "pass". If they be looked the part from a distance they didn't close up. And then the voice...

Anyway - gay tw were never an issue for me.

Straight men with a fetish for womens clothing and spaces are.

I think it’s definitely changed for me. I used to, in an absolute emergency ask women if ds and I could use the ladies. I can’t imagine ever doing that now. I wouldn’t want to normalise behaviour I do not condone.

No males were in brownies, refuges, school toilets etc

I've never knowingly shared a womans space with a trans woman.

I have.

I've never knowingly ever seen a trans woman in a womans toilet.

I have.

I dont know anyone who has.

Depends where you live and whether you know many people.

So maybe this trope that it was just a few transsexuals, but now its different, doesnt actually hold up at all.

Nah. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean other people haven't. Clearly they have. I certainly have.

Anecdotally I'm sure people will have lots of stories for these forums, but every woman knows, her use of womens spaces hasnt really changed.

Although, actually, it has changed.

Reading this thread it sounds like trans women in female toilets seem to cause one of the four fear responses: fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. These processes happen automatically in people and are instinctive. Interesting that not all women feel this way obviously, but a great many do. Ive always related the fear responses to a degree of PTSD, I would guess a great many of us have either witnessed or personally experienced a degree of abusive behaviour from men. Males doing something you think they shouldn't be doing particularly with a sexual element can be frightening and triggering.

As many people have said, this wasn't really an issue or a battleground when trans just meant transsexual. Now with self-ID it can mean anything, and every day we are reminded of men (fully bearded men) who demand to be treated as women.

Transsexual people are losing rights at the hands of the trans rights lobby.

About as often as women having pillow fights in short nighties at sleepovers

Ha great minds @Hoppinggreen

Is this from the same handbook where women share tampons with strangers and teenage girls have giddy sleepover pillow fights?

Has this thread gone. I can see it in my mumsnet..