‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

I don't equate trans women with criminals and most people sharing a loo with me (like, in their own cubicle, mind) are not criminals. This is a dead end.

you think Andrea Long Chu is a criminal? I agree his prose is pretty bad, but a criminal conviction seems to be going a bit far

No, he is a man who you (and he) would say is a woman

I'm simply asking you what characteristics he and I share that make us both women?

It's not a dead end - you want me to give up my rights to privacy dignity and safety for this - you must surely have a good explanation @CatherinaJTV ?

Cis is offensive. Women are women.

[quote LabMix]@CatherinaJTV were you born with a vagina?[/quote]
Catherina is as female as I am. Just because we have polar opposite views on this issue, doesn't mean she is not telling the truth here.

[quote LabMix]@CatherinaJTV were you born with a vagina?[/quote]
I was indeed. See, this is where "cis" would come in helpful for precision of discussion, but here we are.

Catherina, thank you. I do appreciate it.

@CatherinaJTV were you born with a vagina?

Asking for a paper towel though? No. Why on earth would anyone do that? Get your own.

Which characteristics do you share with "natal" female criminals? That discussion is not going to get us anywhere.

a female body

what with being a woman, and them also being women

what characteristics do I share with the charmers I mentioned @CatherinaJTV ?

come on. you think I should put up with men making me uncomfortable in the loos for this. i'm assuming you've got a cracking answer

I do not consent to making women's spaces mixed sex. I do not consent to men in (what should be) women's spaces. I never did and I never will.

Any man who insists on disregarding women's boundaries is EXACTLY the kind of man we don't want to share with.

It does happen. It might not happen to the regular posters on FWR but just because it's never happened to you (general you) doesn't mean it never happens.

Lipstick/ makeup- no. That seems a little odd. Clothes are different. If someone , whether me or anyone else, is wearing something which stands out as beautiful/ stunning/ different/outre/ the assumption is, it's meant to be noticed - so commenting is fine. Commenting "I love your makeup" is not as there's a sort of undertone of "and lord knows what you might look without it"

Yes, I wonder now if that was done as intentional propaganda.

It was. Press for Change were heavily involved.

Catherina is female, yep.

I'm happy to take your word on that, Catherina. Do you acknowledge my experience of the transwoman in the toilet as a teenage girl, masturbating at the sink?

you've gone a bit quiet @CatherinaJTV

It makes me feel tired just saying this, but if you're going to tell me some adult human males are women, then please define 'woman' without using the word 'woman'.

tell me how Kellie Maloney who tried to strangle his wife is a woman
tell me how Andrea 'the barest essentials of femaleness are an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes' Long Chu is a woman
tell me how extreme porn advocate Jane Fae is a woman

come on. what characteristics do I share with those males that makes us all women?

Actually the game is up ladies. We've been caught in a massive gotcha.

I think it's best we start listing what we do in the toilets.

1. I stand admiring myself and other women at the mirrors and then I compliment womens fabulous dresses and ask them where they got them from. We then giggle a lot and swish our long hair.

1. I don't just ask about lipsticks - we all SHARE them! Whilst giggling!

1. "Where did you get those shoes?" This is the way that I find out how to buy shoes.

1. If children are in the loo I don't worry too much about being naked. Why am I naked in the loo you may ask! Don't look is my answer!

1. I turn the taps to the left and that lets me into the secret inner woman chamber. This is where myself and other women share tampons and towels. We whisper secrets. It's romantic and dizzying and exciting! We have a braiding salon in there. And pop tarts!

1. Some women - the grubby ones in trousers or the frumpy old Mumsnet mums go in there and have a pee. I don't think they should be allowed in there at all.

1. When I leave I spray the entire toilet with Angel perfume. Because I'm an angel.

What does everyone else do in there? It's best to be honest because we've been caught out!

In the toilets? Which toilets? Is this something that happens in the toilets of the Met Gala?

@Mamapep if a female member of your family received feedback on her appearance by a man in the women's loos, would you think that nice or creepy, honestly hand on heart?

On what basis are they women?

Cath - just to be completely clear.

You think the middle aged man second from the left in this photo is FEMALE? or a WOMAN? Or a MAN?

Bonkers. Actually we wondered where you've been. You were missed on the Manchester Hates Women thread.