Page 11 | ‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

DameHelena · 2022-03-26T19:41:17+00:00

What does one say to this argument? I’m instinctively sceptical but I don’t know if I’m right to be.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 27/03/2022 18:23

most violence in prisons is nt woman on nt woman

cor, these squirrels are coming thick and fast aren't they?

Clymene · 27/03/2022 18:23

At what point does a man become a transwoman and a subset of women @CatherinaJTV?

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 18:22

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Because for centuries, we have found it easier to put women away rather than teach the men not to rape?

have men been taught not to rape now?

were there zero rapes last year?

Oh, really?! Amazing! Fantastic. And all it took was removing single sex spaces, you say? Wow. We should have thought of that earlier.

aylis · 27/03/2022 18:22

I don't accept your sex denialism which necessarily denies sex as a basis of oppression. And I'm not sorry for that. It's bullshit.

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:21

@334bu

* I got asked whether I would let m kids spend a holiday with their G/L aunt or uncle. It is precisely because I see the similarity that I just cannot muster anti-trans panic.*

Big difference between that and for example, forcing female prisoners to share showers with male prisoners who identify as women. Complaining about male prisoners, some of whom are convicted of sex offences against women and children in female prisons is not " anti-trans" panic

no, that is called "unsafe prisons" and needs urgent reform - most violence in prisons is nt woman on nt woman. We must keep everyone in prison safe.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 27/03/2022 18:21

Because for centuries, we have found it easier to put women away rather than teach the men not to rape?

have men been taught not to rape now?

were there zero rapes last year?

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:20

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

we are not talking about men or criminals. We are talking about women (trans and not trans).

Oh! another squirrel!

do you understand why we have single sex spaces @CatherinaJTV ?

Because for centuries, we have found it easier to put women away rather than teach the men not to rape?

334bu · 27/03/2022 18:20

* I got asked whether I would let m kids spend a holiday with their G/L aunt or uncle. It is precisely because I see the similarity that I just cannot muster anti-trans panic.*

Big difference between that and for example, forcing female prisoners to share showers with male prisoners who identify as women. Complaining about male prisoners, some of whom are convicted of sex offences against women and children in female prisons is not " anti-trans" panic

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 18:20

Given self ID - imminent here in Scotland - here is no difference between a transwoman and a woman in law. Any male who has this 'feeling' (or says that they have this 'feeling') will be indistinguishable from females. You can see no problem with this at all? In any circumstance?

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:18

@aylis

The difference is, there is no basis for believing gay people may harm straight people. Or other gay people.

There IS basis for believing male people may harm female people.

yes, I understand that that's your reasoning, but I don't buy that, sorry.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 27/03/2022 18:18

we are not talking about men or criminals. We are talking about women (trans and not trans).

Oh! another squirrel!

do you understand why we have single sex spaces @CatherinaJTV ?

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 18:17

Being a woman is a feeling, and if a male has that feeling, that makes that male a woman?

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:17

@DomesticatedZombie

the question was about who is a woman, not about spaces. My guess is (and I have heard that from several trans women) that they do NOT feel comfortable in the ladies' loo or changing rooms and would much prefer cubicles.

Okay, great. But your reasoning is that anyone who 'feels most comfortable as a woman' is a woman? That is genuinely it?

For me, it is.

aylis · 27/03/2022 18:17

The difference is, there is no basis for believing gay people may harm straight people. Or other gay people.

There IS basis for believing male people may harm female people.

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:16

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

My lesbian massage therapist did not dare to put up any indication she was not straight, because she had lost customers in her previous job, who did not want to be touched by a lesbian

oh look! A squirrel!

now, about men committing 98% of sexual offences @CatherinaJTV ?

do you understand that's one of the main reasons for single sex spaces?

we are not talking about men or criminals. We are talking about women (trans and not trans).

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 18:16

the question was about who is a woman, not about spaces. My guess is (and I have heard that from several trans women) that they do NOT feel comfortable in the ladies' loo or changing rooms and would much prefer cubicles.

Okay, great. But your reasoning is that anyone who 'feels most comfortable as a woman' is a woman? That is genuinely it?

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:16

@DomesticatedZombie

And many posters here are lesbians, or bisexual women, Catherina. So the implication we are homophobic is bullshit. As you know.

I did not imply that at all.

crispmidnightpeace · 27/03/2022 18:15

Then just keep doing it?
In that case, what's this new fuss about then?

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 18:15

you know that this is not what I meant.

I am genuinely trying to understand your reasoning.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 27/03/2022 18:15

My lesbian massage therapist did not dare to put up any indication she was not straight, because she had lost customers in her previous job, who did not want to be touched by a lesbian

oh look! A squirrel!

now, about men committing 98% of sexual offences @CatherinaJTV ?

do you understand that's one of the main reasons for single sex spaces?

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:15

@DomesticatedZombie

I feel most comfortable as a woman, I guess that is the same with the two trans women you mentioned.

So that is why we ought to let males access female spaces? Because they feel most comfortable there? Please tell me there's more to your reasoning than that, Christina.

the question was about who is a woman, not about spaces. My guess is (and I have heard that from several trans women) that they do NOT feel comfortable in the ladies' loo or changing rooms and would much prefer cubicles.

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 18:15

And many posters here are lesbians, or bisexual women, Catherina. So the implication we are homophobic is bullshit. As you know.

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:14

@DomesticatedZombie

I can think of several other kinds of males who feel very comfortable in women's spaces and would like to spend time there. Is this how we decide which males are allowed to access female spaces? According to male desire?

you know that this is not what I meant.

CatherinaJTV · 27/03/2022 18:13

@EdithStourton

yes yes, and if we have marriage equality, people will want to marry their toasters Oh jeeeeeeeez. Sometimes, Catherina, rights are not like pie. My gay friends getting married did not deprive me of anything. In fact, it made me very happy that they were able to do so and make official relationships that had been going strong for decades.

Sometimes, though, rights ARE like pie. If any bloke can say he's a woman, bang go the safety and privacy of women in toilets and changing rooms and prisons. Bang go women's sports.

Can you honestly not see the difference? Or are you just eagerly looking for a way to try and make look like nasty people?

Wonderful that their marriage makes you happy. We have something in common. Nevertheless, in the run up to marriage equality in particular, all sort of horrendous stories about G/L perverts and pedophiles were spread, especially raising safety issues. My lesbian massage therapist did not dare to put up any indication she was not straight, because she had lost customers in her previous job, who did not want to be touched by a lesbian (or "didn't want them in their spaces"). I got asked whether I would let my kids spend a holiday with their G/L aunt or uncle. It is precisely because I see the similarity that I just cannot muster anti-trans panic.

SirVixofVixHall · 27/03/2022 18:12

Of course we have noticed. I have seen transgender males in the Ladies in various places, and in the bra fitting rooms in John Lewis. I (quite possibly wrongly) assumed at the time that these were homosexual, I still didn’t like them in my space, but I wasn’t worried about sexual assault.
Most people I talk to about this still assume we are talking about gay male people who have been castrated . It should be very clear to people now that this is very far from the case. Even if it was the case, women still want and need single sex spaces.