‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

*tiny. I imagine forks are largely irrelevant.

(plus there is a risk due to WoW violence).

No, I'm sorry, this is risible logic. Including males in single sex spaces will mitigate the vanishingly tine risk of WoW violence how?

I am off to have my tea - have a lovely evening all!

I've been asking this question for years & nobody on the TRA side will ever answer it beyond a moronic 'yeah, well, religions shouldn't be like that/traumatised women just need to get over themselves/yeah, but transwomen are the most oppressed of all'.

Until someone can answer this question rationally & compassionately, with an equal regard for all people, we really can't move forward.

[quote Enough4me]@Mamapep if a female member of your family received feedback on her appearance by a man in the women's loos, would you think that nice or creepy, honestly hand on heart?[/quote]
If the female family member found it creepy, I’d find it creepy. If she didn’t, why would I?

Provide cubicles, work on prison reform (prevent crime), provide better hospital facilities, provide 1 on 1 counselling, don't socialise men as "boys will be boys" naturally violent offenders.

I do not see why, for example, this number of incidents in the women's estate justifies us throwing up our hands and saying "can't eliminate it entirely, so we'll ditch our rules put in place to limit sexual violence".

Do you have this approach to money? "Went over budget by £5, so I might as well get into debt by £350"?

provide single sex spaces for them?

That would be nice.

But the current plan seems to be that we have single sex spaces, but everyone can choose their sex, which means in actual fact that some female people have no access.

The obvious answer is third spaces which are mixed sex, and female only spaces in addition, with male people able to respect that some females require female only spaces for inclusion. That's the one bit that's missing.

We currently have the Brighton rape crisis service where male people have three separate choices of which service best meets their needs but there is no service at all for females who can only access a single sex service.

Why is there no accessible service for those female rape victims?

Because male people do not want it to exist.

It's not up to female people to go mending this particular fence. It wasn't them that smashed it down and then jumped up and down on it.

We already HAVE what are supposed to be single sex spaces.
As you know.

You really have to be joking with this answer.

I am really not that smart. but having this conversation is giving me a little taste of what it feels like to be Ben Cooper.

provide single sex spaces for them?

how are we deciding who the 'women's' single sex spaces are for @CatherinaJTV ?

@CatherinaJTV or you could just call them ‘women’ ffs. ‘Biological women’ if you really can’t cope with the fact that only born females are women

what are we going to do with all the female people who cannot use female single sex spaces provided for them, because male people wish to be included on the grounds of their gender identity and wish to have a choice and alternative to their existing sex based space?

provide single sex spaces for them?

did I say that? No

so with that in mind, has the reason you gave for single sex spaces ('Because for centuries, we have found it easier to put women away rather than teach the men not to rape') gone away?

""we are not talking about men or criminals. We are talking about women (trans and not trans).""

There are NO "not trans" women. Those are called women.
And you ARE talking about men, because you are talking about trans women.
And those are men.

Woman (trans and not trans) makes no sense whatsoever.
Men do not belong in the category of women.
Even when you put in in parentheses.

And excuse me, but did you just say you "don't buy" that males are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of violent sexual assaults? Is that what you meant?
Because that is a statistical FACT.

My answer as always:

what are we going to do with all the female people who cannot use female single sex spaces provided for them, because male people wish to be included on the grounds of their gender identity and wish to have a choice and alternative to their existing sex based space?

To head off the inevitable:

• yes these female people do exist, denial won't disappear them

• many of these female people have protected characteristics too and are covered by the EqAc2010 which has 9 characteristics, not 1, and there is not a hierarchy

• these female people are taxpayers and equally entitled to spaces, resources and facilities as male people are

• it is obviously sexist to the point of male supremacy to say that some females must lose access to everything so that male people can take their preferred choice from everything, hence unacceptable

• inclusion applies to female people too

• no, you can't refuse female people equality, inclusion and access on the grounds that you don't like their culture/belief/disability/needs/lived experience/ and see this as acceptable grounds for intolerance and refusal to understand the idea of intersectionality.

So what are we going to do with these females?

Gulags?

Sex is an axis of oppression. It doesn't matter how you try to adjust it to make it more palatable to put men in women's spaces. Men as women is literally part of the 'belief system' that is laid over sex (ie - gender) in order to oppress women.

if squirrel = facts

most violence in prisons is committed by men on men. what with men being 95% of the prison population

now, rape. cured yes?

Sorry, what’s a ‘nt woman’ @CatherinaJTV?

about the zero rapes @CatherinaJTV ? rape has been completely done away with now then?