JKR being burned again thanks to Putin

Lots of gender critical people are left wing/left leaning though, so the argument that it's a right wing school of thought doesn't stand up anyway? A lot of the women on Mumsnet are traditionally Labour voters.

Then right wing support for gender critical ideas comes from a place of homophobia and being scared of anything that is vaguely outside the parameters of masculine and feminine.

The feminist support for gender critical ideas comes from a place of not believing that womanhood is an identity that can be appropriate by people who are not women, and from a place of caring about children, particularly girls, be placed down highly medicalised pathways as young teenagers.

This stuff really isn't difficult to understand.

With Brexit and the US election the Russian trolls targeted both sides of the debate to fuel the fire. It is perfectly conceivable that they are doing the same with the gender debate. Give the Tras anti feminism feed and give the far right anti Trans stuff. Unfortunately the trans stuff seems to have the most support.

[quote orinocosfavoritecake]@HardyBuckett
Alright. Let’s do Europe.

Germany - ‘ Parliamentary group leader and AfD deputy, Beatrix von Storch, went on a transmisogynist tirade in Bundestag, specifically targeting MP Tessa Ganserer by deadnaming and misgendering her in front of the parliament on Thursday, over a debate on International Women’s Day.

“They claim gender has nothing to do with biology. And everyone can somehow determine their own gender,” von Storch said, claiming that a majority of the country’s MPs are ‘clinging’ to a concept of “gender ideology.”

France - remember that charmer Eric Zenmour? Une fois de plus, les propos d’Éric Zemmour font polémique. Dans l’émission Face à l’info d’hier soir sur Cnews, le chroniqueur a dénoncé Quotidien qui avait reçu Lily, une jeune fille trans : « Ils ont fait une émission à la gloire d’une gamine de 8 ans, Lilie, qui dit qu’elle veut être un garçon ! Ce sont les expériences du docteur Mengele!’

Spain - Buxade’s a spokesman for the farr-right Vox party.

‘Spain’s new transgender bill is expected to be passed by the Council of Ministers this Thursday.

It would allow transgender people to officially change their gender like making amendments to identity cards.

Jorge Buxade said: “This is the most anti-human thing that can exist and constitutes the destruction of the entire edifice of our civilisation in one foul swoop.”

I’m not sure this is a great argument for you.[/quote]
You can keep flinging shit to see what sticks all you like, most people are still going to believe that you can't change sex, sorry.

[quote orinocosfavoritecake]@HardyBuckett
Alright. Let’s do Europe.

Germany - ‘ Parliamentary group leader and AfD deputy, Beatrix von Storch, went on a transmisogynist tirade in Bundestag, specifically targeting MP Tessa Ganserer by deadnaming and misgendering her in front of the parliament on Thursday, over a debate on International Women’s Day.

“They claim gender has nothing to do with biology. And everyone can somehow determine their own gender,” von Storch said, claiming that a majority of the country’s MPs are ‘clinging’ to a concept of “gender ideology.”

France - remember that charmer Eric Zenmour? Une fois de plus, les propos d’Éric Zemmour font polémique. Dans l’émission Face à l’info d’hier soir sur Cnews, le chroniqueur a dénoncé Quotidien qui avait reçu Lily, une jeune fille trans : « Ils ont fait une émission à la gloire d’une gamine de 8 ans, Lilie, qui dit qu’elle veut être un garçon ! Ce sont les expériences du docteur Mengele!’

Spain - Buxade’s a spokesman for the farr-right Vox party.

‘Spain’s new transgender bill is expected to be passed by the Council of Ministers this Thursday.

It would allow transgender people to officially change their gender like making amendments to identity cards.

Jorge Buxade said: “This is the most anti-human thing that can exist and constitutes the destruction of the entire edifice of our civilisation in one foul swoop.”

I’m not sure this is a great argument for you.[/quote]
Do you think listing European right wingers who are gender critical magically erases European left wing thought? Because if so, that's not a great argument for you either. And the fact that you prioritised North Americans and barely mentioned Europe initially speaks absolute volumes. US culturally imperalistic ideas show their ugly face again.

Also, your camp and the Iranian regime are both in support of state funded sex reassignment surgery. So like it or not, if we're using your 'logic' you're the same as the Revolutionary Guards.

This did make me laugh.

It's this logic; Hitler was a vegetarian, all vegetarians are Nazis.

I'm not sure you've got any great arguments.

@HardyBuckett
Alright. Let’s do Europe.

Germany - ‘ Parliamentary group leader and AfD deputy, Beatrix von Storch, went on a transmisogynist tirade in Bundestag, specifically targeting MP Tessa Ganserer by deadnaming and misgendering her in front of the parliament on Thursday, over a debate on International Women’s Day.

“They claim gender has nothing to do with biology. And everyone can somehow determine their own gender,” von Storch said, claiming that a majority of the country’s MPs are ‘clinging’ to a concept of “gender ideology.”

France - remember that charmer Eric Zenmour? Une fois de plus, les propos d’Éric Zemmour font polémique. Dans l’émission Face à l’info d’hier soir sur Cnews, le chroniqueur a dénoncé Quotidien qui avait reçu Lily, une jeune fille trans : « Ils ont fait une émission à la gloire d’une gamine de 8 ans, Lilie, qui dit qu’elle veut être un garçon ! Ce sont les expériences du docteur Mengele!’

Spain - Buxade’s a spokesman for the farr-right Vox party.

‘Spain’s new transgender bill is expected to be passed by the Council of Ministers this Thursday.

It would allow transgender people to officially change their gender like making amendments to identity cards.

Jorge Buxade said: “This is the most anti-human thing that can exist and constitutes the destruction of the entire edifice of our civilisation in one foul swoop.”

I’m not sure this is a great argument for you.

Hasn’t anyone watched any Adam Curtis ?

I've seen most of his older stuff but not the recent one.

Exactly he's hardly going to be either pro trans or a radical feminist, is he?

The "Putin is ur friend" idiocy is very juvenile.

Yeah, it's the kind of 'argument' that the hard of thinking would make, and is exactly what Putin wants - the very reason he would mention JKR is because he knows that identity politics is a hot topic of division in The West, he probably doesn't give a shit about it himself either way.

'Haha lolz, you are exactly the same as Vladimir Putin because you don't believe that people can change sex and you don't want male bodies in female spaces' really isn't the clever, progressive take that these people think it is.

Looking forward to the next bestseller
"Harry Putin and the Unjust War".

Hasn’t anyone watched any Adam Curtis ?

Will be back with links

Oh yes sexism will literally disappear if we pretend sex doesn't exist

It might not be talked about and women, disproportionately will be worse off for that, but it will still be there, because the female sex is oppressed on the grounds of our female bodies and the expectations around them. Honestly, I would be mortified if my logic skills and general grounding in reality were shown to be this poor.

Bolsonaro, Salvini, Putin, US Republican party, Tucker goddamn Carlson on Fox News, US Southern Baptists, Catholic Church. From the neo-nazi truckers in Canada to the Liberal party in Australia pretty much the whole gamut of right-wingers side with mumsnet on trans issues.

I'm fairly sure I agree with many of them all about Brussels sprouts, puppies, people who park badly, daylight saving, dinosaurs and tea.

And I don't agree with them about 'trans issues' because I believe in healthcare, employment, all sorts of lovely rights. They don't.

It's such a load of old ad hominem bollocks. What we need to do is agree the basics of what we ALL agree with and work from there. Rather than finding all the places we disagree and fighting.

For example the truckers in Canada believe in freedom, looking at overreach in government and forced medical procedures. Good. So do I. Now how do we look at that sensibly and without being a twatbadger?

What happened to a non-partisan, collaborative approach?

That's a lot of words you have written there, but I still will never believe that people can change sex, that males should be in female spaces or that kids should be injected with powerful drugs to potentially permanently mess up their endocrine systems.

I literally couldn't give a fuck whose 'side' that means I'm on. If anything, it just makes me even more disgusted and disappointed that the 'side' I thought I was on doesn't give a flying shite about women or children.

Yes I think that pretty much sums up my position too. The "Putin is ur friend" idiocy is very juvenile. Nature will out, always.

Or being able to split humanity by biological sex is intrinsically helpful to people who want to oppress women?

It is also intrinsically helpful to people who want to stop that oppression from happening. If we have no allowed words for the female sex, misogyny and sexism will still flourish, but we will have great difficulty pointing out its general nature.

The people who suffer from period poverty, the people who need abortions, the people who are discriminated against at work because they look like they might be able to get pregnant, the people who are expected to care for children, the people most likely to be raped and so on are largely members of the same demographic group. That group stands in the intersection of various types of sex-based ill-treatments, but not being allowed to name it makes showing that much harder.