Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR being burned again thanks to Putin

234 replies

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 25/03/2022 14:45

Twitter is awash with blue ticks doing lots of “JKR is on a level with putin” and sky news have helpfully Hmm amplified it

t.co/6mhxE2Wvee

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Quaggars · 25/03/2022 22:03

because the people with power who are backing that line are the ones who want to shred women’s rights

Exactly

orinocosfavoritecake · 25/03/2022 21:58

Sorry - that was meant for: Sittinginthesand.

Must get remedial training at the troll farm.

NumberTheory · 25/03/2022 21:58

[quote orinocosfavoritecake]@nepeta

‘
As I wrote earlier, the groups and people you list want to keep the female biological sex down. We want to stop that from happening. Both objectives need to have a name for the female biological sex. The rest of what the groups and people you mention is diametrically opposite to what we want.’

Or being able to split humanity by biological sex is intrinsically helpful to people who want to oppress women?[/quote]
People can already split humans by biological sex. Changing the law or social default to gender identity over sex won't stop that. It's something even babies are pretty good at. People don't treat most trans people as the gender they identify as because they don't look like the gender they identify as and don't have the differences that normally go hand in hand with that gender. You can't discriminate against a pregnant transwoman, because there transwomen cannot be pregnant. Transwomen aren't at greater risk from traffic accidents because cars are primarily designed to protect men, because they are male. Transwomen are generally socially penalised for not performing masculinity, not for not performing femininity.

Non of that means that transwomen don't also need accomodation and protection from discrimination. Just that they aren't women and don't suffer discrimination on the same basis as women.

What gender ideology attempts to do is stop women organizing and demanding action and accommodation on the basis of their sex - which is the factor that lead to their discrimination. Pushing instead, to allow anyone to demand the protections and accommodations that have been fought for by women even when they not only haven't suffered the discrimination and do not need the accommodations but often have benefitted from the privilege of their male sex and continue to do so.

orinocosfavoritecake · 25/03/2022 21:57

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Sorry, but no. Mumsnet-aligned gender critical views belong, world-wide to the far-right & the religiously intolerant, not to the rest of us.

Look. I get the intellectual appeal of ‘if you lose the ability to define women by bio sex then you lose the ability to protect women.’ It’s a beautiful theory - hangs together perfectly.

But it shatters when it hits reality - because the people with power who are backing that line are the ones who want to shred women’s rights.

I don’t much like that either.

nauticant · 25/03/2022 21:56

In one way it's not that unsurprising, similarly messed-up things are going on. If you go online you'll find that Putin is getting support both from the far Left and from the far Right, because they both hate aspects of modern Western society/culture. The far Left are obsessed about anti-Imperialism and the far Right view modern Western society/culture as degenerate.

You have to see this blaming of JKR for what Putin is doing within this kind of screwed-up thinking.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 25/03/2022 21:50

@nauticant

It took one comment by Putin, a single comment, and thousands of trans activists and trans allies immediately danced to his tune. It shows how easy they are to manipulate, and how many of them have no filter whatsoever about where they'll allow manipulation to come from.

Putin is engaged with propaganda as a distraction from the war in Ukraine and these people are willing to unthinkingly do his work for him. This is remarkable.

Yes, you have nailed it. It's scary really isn't it?
Sittinginthesand · 25/03/2022 21:49

Orinoco - that’s because globally nearly everyone is aligned with gender critical views, so that includes all sorts of people. Nearly everyone in the world is able to accurately identify male and female people, and most people know that humans can’t change sex, this includes right wing, left wing, no wing… it’s only a tiny group, massively amplified by social media that are involved in all this nonsense.

DrSbaitso · 25/03/2022 21:45

There's an idiot a minute claiming they're right "because everyone laughed at Galileo".

Yes, but Galileo was a genius and you're just a tosspot.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 25/03/2022 21:40

Jesus, yes, @nauticant.

That is terrifying.

DrSbaitso · 25/03/2022 21:40

@nauticant

It took one comment by Putin, a single comment, and thousands of trans activists and trans allies immediately danced to his tune. It shows how easy they are to manipulate, and how many of them have no filter whatsoever about where they'll allow manipulation to come from.

Putin is engaged with propaganda as a distraction from the war in Ukraine and these people are willing to unthinkingly do his work for him. This is remarkable.

Too true!
Yewtown · 25/03/2022 21:39

I'm not excusing, far from it just trying to understand where this ideology has sprung up from. There have always been cross dressers but they were always seen as 'odd' and at the fringes of society. I just mused that the explosion of trans ideology may have more sinister roots

DrSbaitso · 25/03/2022 21:39

She's had an emergency appeal out on Lumos for Ukrainian children since the war started (Lumos had been working in Ukraine for years already) and she's matching donations to it up to a million. She couldn't have nailed her colours higher on this one if she'd Wingardium Leviosa-d it.

He's just hijacking her because she's what he imagines himself to be.

nauticant · 25/03/2022 21:37

It took one comment by Putin, a single comment, and thousands of trans activists and trans allies immediately danced to his tune. It shows how easy they are to manipulate, and how many of them have no filter whatsoever about where they'll allow manipulation to come from.

Putin is engaged with propaganda as a distraction from the war in Ukraine and these people are willing to unthinkingly do his work for him. This is remarkable.

ZenNudist · 25/03/2022 21:37

Its actually quite distasteful to align anyone at all with that murderous tyrant. Except his natural peers: Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Gen. Pinochet, Slobodan Milosevic and Col. Gaddafi.

DrSbaitso · 25/03/2022 21:36

It's just plain old-fashioned hijacking.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/03/2022 21:36

I agree, DrSbaitso

DrSbaitso · 25/03/2022 21:33

He's tried to align himself with her because she's a brave queen who's been treated appallingly for being right and he thinks it makes him look good. If she were actually on his level, he wouldn't be trying to exploit her goodness.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/03/2022 21:28

There's always an excuse to explain away, isn't there?!

Pretty sure it's the same excuse people that you approve of are using too, just biased towards your perspective.

OldCrone · 25/03/2022 21:13

@orinocosfavoritecake

Well, globally gender critical ideology is aligned with the right/far right & with anti-abortion, anti-divorce and anti-contraception campaigners.

Bolsonaro, Salvini, Putin, US Republican party, Tucker goddamn Carlson on Fox News, US Southern Baptists, Catholic Church. From the neo-nazi truckers in Canada to the Liberal party in Australia pretty much the whole gamut of right-wingers side with mumsnet on trans issues.

This is the side you’ve picked and they really really hate you.

Always reminds me of that old Onion headline about the second world war ‘Japanese side with white supremacists in well-thought out plan’

(There will be people coming along in a sec saying that I’ve cherry-picked. Sure I have. Look at that list again. Oh - and Iran doesn’t support trans rights - they support surgical sex changes.)

Those people aren't gender critical. You don't seem to understand what that means. Those people love gender just as much as the TRAs. Here's a helpful diagram for you.
JKR being burned again thanks to Putin
Quaggars · 25/03/2022 20:49

Perhaps Putin and his troll army are responsible for fanning the flames of gender ideology and cancel culture. It's quite possible it is being used a ruse to destabilise the west.
There's always an excuse to explain away, isn't there?!

WinterTrees · 25/03/2022 20:32

Putin is anti-trans. He is not pro-women.

JKR is pro-women. She is not anti-trans.

HardyBuckette · 25/03/2022 20:23

@Hasselhoffsheadband

Lots of gender critical people are left wing/left leaning though, so the argument that it's a right wing school of thought doesn't stand up anyway? A lot of the women on Mumsnet are traditionally Labour voters.

Then right wing support for gender critical ideas comes from a place of homophobia and being scared of anything that is vaguely outside the parameters of masculine and feminine.

The feminist support for gender critical ideas comes from a place of not believing that womanhood is an identity that can be appropriate by people who are not women, and from a place of caring about children, particularly girls, be placed down highly medicalised pathways as young teenagers.

This stuff really isn't difficult to understand.

Indeed, the reality is that attitudes to gender don't follow simple right left lines. Not least because those are different in every society anyway. Hence the UK had a right wing PM who wanted to introduce self ID, for example.
BootsAndRoots · 25/03/2022 20:21

People buy into the conspiracy that Putin is this mastermind behind everything in the West (such a great mastermind that he can't even invade a country properly!).

Yet we have newspapers publicly owned by Russians, but apparently that has nothing to do with Russian influence and money because they support the trendy causes!

Who cares what happens on Twitter (only 20% of the UK are on it) and considering that everyone who disagrees with the tech consensus is banned, it is just an echo-chamber for TRAs. Something kicking off on Twitter is not Putin's masterplan to win the war in Ukraine.

We give too much power to social media by thinking that it has all this power when it doesn't.

To claim people have voted in a particular way by of trollbots, is a lazy way of not having to look at the real reasons people think a particular way, to avoid having the real debate.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/03/2022 20:20

Give the Tras anti feminism feed and give the far right anti Trans stuff.

Yes I agree this is plausible.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 25/03/2022 20:20

@MrsTerryPratchett

It's this logic; Hitler was a vegetarian, all vegetarians are Nazis.
Yes!