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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boris has nailed colours to mast

613 replies

Ridcully82 · 23/03/2022 12:41

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

OP posts:
fifteentoes · 24/03/2022 22:02

Jesus. All he said was that biology is important. Not even ANY statement of policy, intention of concrete law changes or anything. Not that you could trust a word of it anyway if he did, mind, but he didn't.

Aren't people just hearing what they want to hear? From the mouth of the most dishonest, corrupt, piss-taking leader in living memory...

DifficultBloodyWoman · 24/03/2022 21:15

I’m a floating voter.

I have previously had reason to vote against Labour (Corbyn, KS saying TWAW etc).

I now have a reason to actively vote for theTories.

BJ has won my vote rather than been awarded it by default.

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 20:42

@MyLittlePhonyPony

as long as they are well-built (the toilets) Lol!
Wink
HeDidWhattt · 24/03/2022 20:41

I will vote conservative because of this.
This is a hill I’m willing to die on.

Women matter….all women!

Scorchedterf · 24/03/2022 20:40

Before my mumsnet times I saw TWs as showing solidarity with women, not any more.

A vote is never wasted, even if you’re in a safe seat, political parties look at the votes against them as well as for them.
My safe seat MP is Crispin Blunt so I have no idea how I can vote, he’s certainly not a Tory who thinks that women matter.

      solidarity with women, that
MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 20:39

as long as they are well-built (the toilets)
Lol!

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 20:24

@MyLittlePhonyPony

Yes sorry, that came across snarky.

I just get tired of the 'I am fine sharing a barrrffroom so everyone else is too' brigade.

Don't worry. I know. Some people are very casual with giving away other people's rights. I'm not one of them.

I'm not personally that bothered about sharing toilets with the odd TW as long as they are well-built (the toilets). But it's not just about me. There are - for example - religiously devout women trying to use the same spaces, women who have been seriously assaulted, women for whom it just feels very uncomfortable, and it's not okay to dismiss their concerns.

MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 20:01

Yes sorry, that came across snarky.

I just get tired of the 'I am fine sharing a barrrffroom so everyone else is too' brigade.

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 19:58

@MyLittlePhonyPony

it's an accommodation I can make But it's not up to you to decide everyone else should make that accomodation.

Some women have good reasons for saying no. Can you think of any?

I didn't say that, of course. I completely support women voicing their opposition to the GRA. This is a democracy.
MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 19:54

it's an accommodation I can make
But it's not up to you to decide everyone else should make that accomodation.

Some women have good reasons for saying no. Can you think of any?

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 24/03/2022 19:54

@FOJN

I cringe looking back at the smug Guardian-reader I was.

Me too. I'm embarrassed by the arrogance and righteousness of my 2015 self. This issue and several others have been a real education for me. What I see now is the left blaming the right for stoking the culture wars when in fact the right are resisting a cultural revolution the left insist we need. I'm worried the backlash will take us into right wing extremism and I mean genuine extremism not the kind of mainstream right wing views which too many on the left label fascist as a way of shaming anyone who votes for a mainstream right leaning party.

Agree with a lot of that, although I'd say that the Right in the US actually fired the first shots in the culture wars, by weaponising abortion rights and gun control, which weren't big issues before the Reagan era.

Even more than the sniping of Left and Right, I am shocked by the speed with which liberals (small and large L), have abandoned free speech and tolerance.

VestofAbsurdity · 24/03/2022 19:53

Are you against gay people being able to marry because it was brought in by the Tories under Cameron?

I mean the guy was a massive bellend but I still think it was the right thing to do. Yikes! I must be a Tory now! Oh noes!

Exactly, I despair at this idiotic tribalism shown by SomePosters it will blow their mind that Stonewall was initially against same sex marriage.

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 19:45

I don't oppose the GRA in principle. I oppose self-ID and support the legality (and simple use) of the single-sex exceptions. If trans people want legal recognition of their gender for reasons of their own comfort, it's an accommodation I can make. I will only oppose it if I have to.

MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 19:43

FFS. Please don’t give your votes away solely on the back of one insinuation.

Don't worry, the conservatives won my vote by default previously.

But I consider my vote a 'stall' to buy time to row it all back. And again, realistically, many of the current cabinet shockers are unlikely to last much longer.

Though cockroaches and Michael Gove seem to be able to survive anything.

I'm sure that's where the similarity ends Wink

Deliriumoftheendless · 24/03/2022 19:37

@SomePosters

So you find yourself on the same side as the daily fail and Boris Johnson and that doesn’t make you question your stance?

Yikes on all the bikes

Are you against gay people being able to marry because it was brought in by the Tories under Cameron?

I mean the guy was a massive bellend but I still think it was the right thing to do. Yikes! I must be a Tory now! Oh noes!

Slothtoes · 24/03/2022 19:31

FFS. Please don’t give your votes away solely on the back of one insinuation.
I’ll believe that that incompetent, morally bankrupt shitweasel is serious when he uses his inexplicably massive Parliamentary majority to actually repeal the GRA. Until then, we’re no safer than we were before politically, self iD could be brought back in by anyone and I still feel politically homeless.

MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 19:09

The anti-semitism row was a reason also last time not to support them.

Yes, I must admit I was out of the country last election and didn't quite get what the deal was.
News sources were rather limited where I was but I'd be interested to know how the media in the UK handled it.

Iwassonaive · 24/03/2022 18:01

@MyLittlePhonyPony

Sorry, one more thing. (Thread hog. Pink oink)

I think the question I needed to ask myself was this. If Labour were erasing the words, spaces, and opportunities of any other minority, would I still vote for them?

My honest answer was no. So I let this go on so long because of my own internal misogyny. Now I've realise that it's time to stand up for myself, women and girls.

The anti-semitism row was a reason also last time not to support them.
MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 17:28

The fgm point is interesting, because it really wasn't that long ago when liberalism meant fgm was accepted by professionals at school as 'cultural tradition' and so it wasn't challenged.

Just a good example of how 'progressive values' of accepting all the ways others' live, aren't always benign and can result in harm to the vulnerable.

Dinosauria · 24/03/2022 17:10

I think the question I needed to ask myself was this. If Labour were erasing the words, spaces, and opportunities of any other minority, would I still vote for them?

If they were supporting FGM because the families and children thought it was what they wanted

MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 16:55

But it doesn't negate the general structural economic problems that affect everybody except the wealthy, regardless of what sex they are. The Tories hope that it will divert your attention from those though, and they appear to be right.

And what practical solutions will Labour do that will actually help solve those problems?

Because in my experience in education, Labour is very good at putting ideological expectations in, but not so good at putting the structure or funding in to support those expectations. Thus putting the work that they should have done restructuring on others(teachers, heads, parents etc)

I'm not saying conservatives haven't caused me problems, because they have. It's just that people don't wax lyrical about what they do when it's ineffective or a mess so much.

So I would need some hard evidence that labour actually do what they say on the tin in other areas, because actually for all the 'Education, education, education' guff Labour have left a legacy that has started many crisis in education.

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 16:55

Well, there we are then. If we can't trust Starmer anyway, why would he be better for kids?

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 16:53

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fifteentoes · 24/03/2022 16:52

@Nightlystroll

We know Boris is a habitual liar. Kier Starmer however is not,

Out of interest, how do we know what Keir Starmer is? He is only been in politics 7 years and the only position he's held is immigration and brexit - where he was a hardly a stunning success, was he? And he seems to have rowed back a lot on things he supported Corbyn over. So how truthful is he really?

Sorry let's get real here.

Anyone with any experience within the Labour party can tell you that Keir Starmer is an ABSOLUTE habitual liar. It's the only way he became leader. He has no sliver of personal integrity whatsoever.

It's one reason why, despite everything I've said in this thread, I won't be voting for him.

fifteentoes · 24/03/2022 16:47

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Expanding the definition of women to include men, and on the basis of their own declaration which is what Labour unacceptably want to do, destroys any hope of evidence based policy making

I get that. So are you saying it IS more important than whether women can eat, heat their homes and feed their children?

Want to tackle issues around woman’s pay or violence against women or the under representation of women in politics or womens poverty or improving woman’s health? How do you do that when you don’t know if you counting biological women or including men who feel like women? Whose testimony are you listening too - biological womens or men who feel like women?

Well one way you do it is by tackling pay, violence, political representation, poverty and health generally. Women are a subset of people, so the government policies that affect people generally, without being gender-specific, affect women. Less funding for the NHS means women, along with men, get worse cancer care, longer A&E waiting times etc. etc. Weakening of trade unions and deregulation of workplace rights means workers generally - some of whom will be women - get paid less.

Yes, there is a then a whole set of sex-specific issues that of course one wants the government to manage properly, and I get the frustration at having to argue about the very existence of sex in the first place, and why that's a huge problem. But it doesn't negate the general structural economic problems that affect everybody except the wealthy, regardless of what sex they are. The Tories hope that it will divert your attention from those though, and they appear to be right.

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