Boris has nailed colours to mast

Whitecreambluejug:

I don't believe I am. I don't think Starmer is dishonest, I think he really thinks this clearly untrue thing.

The Tories have nothing to lose here. Their voters naturally hate anything they see as woke so he can say these things knowing he's playing to his constituents while picking up some feminist votes along the way. Boris himself is a moral vacuum and this is purely political.

The right are right on this, just for all the wrong reasons.

If Labour win, they will argue that they have an endorsement for this batshittery. Same as the SNP does. And it's wrong.

I agree.

The simple truth is that he is prepared to lie to get votes.

And the fact that he probably, like most men, is not that interested in women or our issues probably helps.

'I find it very odd that people here are happy to vote for someone who does not support misogyny being made a hate crime.'

Alternative: we vote for someone who does support misogyny being made a hate crime, then lets women be targeted for 'misogynistic hate crime' for not calling males women.

No thank you.

'Yes to all of what you've said here. I've always either voted Labour or Green - now can't vote for either. One of my best friends has called me a 'fascist' for saying I won't vote for either of them anymore'

This is the other reason I won't vote for them. Half of them are very extreme in their politics. They don't brook disagreement with some very strange ideas, and the trans debate is just one of them.

I find it very odd that people here are happy to vote for someone who does not support misogyny being made a hate crime.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58800328.amp
Also as an MP, he has always abstained from Westminster votes on abortion.
But this is clearly a man who is to be trusted & deserves women's votes?

'There's no way an intelligent respected QC like Starmer believes that a human actually changes sex, so why is he saying this stuff?'

First he had to redefine the concept in his mind. Somehow he managed to remove 'sex' from genetics and chromosomes, and position it in his mind as relating to external characteristics. 'Getting a sex change' was what we used to call it; he just takes it more literally.

The problem is, I think, if someone performed a 'sex change' on someone else without their consent (under anaesthesia), he wouldn't regard them as having changed sex. He will (I believe) be associating 'sex change' with changing one's body externally to match 'gender identity', and imagining that people really are men or women 'inside', and they change their external sex characteristics to match, thus 'becoming' outside what they always were inside.

Lifelong Labour voter, would vote Tory in an election if they are the only people saying TW are TW and women are women. Utterly dispirited and betrayed by Labour on this.

Vote Labour and get rid. We can work with labour to change their batshitery on gender

I was thinking maybe I should do that until the ' I refuse to say what a woman' is debacle on Women's Day. I don't think I have ever seen political cowardice reach such heights in my lifetime.

Zelenski is a politician facing death to save his country in mentally, physically torturous conditions.
The politicians in the Labour party are too scared to say what a woman is in case they get called a name.

I have nothing left but contempt for them.

Labour is a lost cause. Their stance on this issue shows that they have completely lost the plot.

They could tell me grass was green and I would now have to go outside and check it for myself.

Looks like ole Boris is getting my vote.

Problem is even if Labour do a massive volte face on this now I still wouldn't trust them with my vote.

When they get torn to shreds over it in the election, which they will as the Tories have spotted it as an issue like Brexit and will push it relentlessly, I will have zero sympathy for them.

Labour, as in the last election which was fought and lost over Brexit, are either too stupid, too ideologically captured or just to damn far up their own arses to see the writing on the wall, one would have thought they had learnt that lesson after the 2019 election.

On the flip side voting Tory just because they will occasionally (when they think its a vote winner) remember that women exist feels like a betrayal of poor and disabled women.

Disabled women are extremely vulnerable to self Id. If self Id comes in they lose their right to a same sex carer, hospital treatment etc.

I

I'm with you, @purpleboy . It's a shame that the Women's Equality Party are already down the rabbit hole.
Trying to think of a name!
Socialist Mums?
Real Women?

I wonder how much it costs to set this up & to put up some candidates...

We can work with labour to change their batshitery on gender.

Oh we really, really can't.

You always have to think with a party trying to sound electable - particularly Labour who live on 'don't frighten the horses, get into power on a lot of nice sounding waffle and then do what you want when its too late for democracy to interfere' - is that what they will tell you will be a very small, watered down version of what they would actually do once the voters can't stop them for a few years.

This degree of batshittery is what they think of as the small, reasonable, palatable, saleable bit. So what they would be capable of once in power?

Yeah, as a biological woman stuffed with not being able to identify out of the realities of it, I really don't want to experience living under that. Or see other women living under it either. I'll go with bumbling, corrupt and uncaring over actively bloody dangerous, homophobic and woman-hating any day of the week.

and all the other parties were better on a wide range of parties

Should have said, ' all the other parties were better on a wide range of issues'

We can work with labour to change their batshitery on gender.

How? They refused to accept votes from women who had gone against their batshittery. They made bloody lists of us. They told us, point blank, to fuck off if we did not accept TWAW!

Many of us fucked off. After decades of being a card carrying member. Got it on my 18th birthday, sent it back on my 50th!

I'm voting Conservative because of this.

If there were a shit party but it took a clear line against slavery, and all the other parties were better on a wide range of parties but wanted to re-introduce slavery, I would definitely be voting for the shit but anti-slavery party.

I feel the same about this. This is not a single-issue for me. Its fundamentally about recognising the humanity, existence and essential human rights of just over half the human population. Damn right I will vote for a party the reflects my views on this and I will unashamedly vote for them too.

Good to hear from Boris. It’s extraordinary that Labour can’t say this but we are where we are!

Oh - the "Boris is a liar" thing. ALL current politicans, the careerists, the eye on the prize politickos are ALL LIARS!

There is a group of people whose special needs should be met

AND

Biology exists and the massive majority of people's lives and definitions will revolve around this.

The man isn't big on common sense, but that's something I can get behind.

I will not hope to "change the batshittery" later. It's now or never. We got rid of the antisemites this way, we'll get rid of this through electoral defeat. Unless, Labour is smart enough to get on the front foot and start talking like grown ups about this instead of grumpy teens

Why are Labour MPs saying ridiculous ideologically based untruths, if not to get votes?

There's no way an intelligent respected QC like Starmer believes that a human actually changes sex, so why is he saying this stuff? Why can't he say exactly what Boris Johnson said today?