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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boris has nailed colours to mast

613 replies

Ridcully82 · 23/03/2022 12:41

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

OP posts:
Fifteentoes · 27/03/2022 21:32

Teenage boy faints from hunger at London food bank -

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boy-14-rushed-hospital-after-26563927

On the bright side, at least he wasn't trying to pass himself off as trans.

Blossomtoes · 27/03/2022 16:22

This is where the Tories put their money where their mouth isn’t.

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/895/reader/reader.html?#!preferred/0/package/895/pub/895/page/24/article/276620

juicejuicesteak · 27/03/2022 16:18

I don't understand the "boris is saying the right thing, but he lies so don't vote for him" versus the "Starmer doesn't believe the lies he's telling so ignore this and vote for him."

juicejuicesteak · 27/03/2022 16:15

All the people who think this is a minority issue, and the electorate will be talking about the economy etc. that's exactly WHY it will become (quite correctly) a big issue come the election. Boris would much rather talk about the lunacy of this, than anything he has measurably failed at.

I'll vote Boris. Can't stand the man, deplore his track record. But if it protects those women labour voters think they have a monopoly on, the poor, the disabled the vulnerable from the proper nasty mens sexual rights in self ID, if the Tories are going to acknowledge that I should have rights, that 'woman' isn't a dress code with properly assigned behaviours/ personalities to fit; then they will get my vote. I'll probably offer to leaflet for them on this issue.

MyLittlePhonyPony · 27/03/2022 11:25

Favour

MyLittlePhonyPony · 27/03/2022 11:25

@IcakethereforeIam

Keep misreading the title as Boris has nail colours Confused.
I imagine he'd father sage green, steel grey or harlot red.
IcakethereforeIam · 27/03/2022 10:54

Keep misreading the title as Boris has nail colours Confused.

Kendodd · 27/03/2022 10:45

Which is a wider problem with Labour over all. It's not just this issue they will shut people up about - they are very comfortable with shutting down the opinions of their members and MPs
Really? You think the Tories allow free thinking of their MPs?
Have you not been watching the last few years while Johnson purged his party of any remotely sensible MP and prompted a bunch of 'yes men' willing to endorse every lie he says?

PoisoningPigeons · 27/03/2022 08:46

I absolutely agree that the Tories will say anything at all and will happily lie if they think there are votes in it.

The question is: Will Labour say anything at all and happily lie if they think there are votes in it?

Because if the answer is Yes, then this is not exactly a reason for an undecided voter to choose one set of liars over another set of liars.

And if the answer if No, then this means that Labour genuinely believe that gender overrides sex, that we shouldn't say only women have cervixes, that babies are born without a sex, that gender-critical women should be re-educated and if they won't recant should be expelled from the party.

MarshaBradyo · 27/03/2022 07:28

Starmer has made it clear where he and Labour stand, and it’s not something I can vote for. I’m glad others feel as strongly reading pp.

EthelTheAardvark · 26/03/2022 23:59

If the issue isn't that important, then why criticise Johnson for talking about it

Because we know from his attitude to women generally that he cares precisely nothing about promoting women's interests, and it is just another example of his utter hypocrisy. And if anyone don't know that, then he is potentially raising hopes for nothing, because for him promises are totally meaningless.

Nightlystroll · 26/03/2022 23:43

And because the reality is that people will know perfectly well that there is no way that the election would have been won on this issue alone.

If the issue isn't that important, then why criticise Johnson for talking about it? It's obviously not going to affect his chances of winning either. And if it's not going win an election, then it's not going to lose an election. So there's no reason why Starmer can't say what he's really thinking. Therefore you've got to think he is actually stating what he believes - that biology and protection of women's spaces are not important.

MangyInseam · 26/03/2022 22:08

I've written before about why I don't think the Tories are particularly great on upholding women's rights given the open goal Labour have served them but at least they allow their MPs freedom of thought and speech on the topic.

Which is a wider problem with Labour over all. It's not just this issue they will shut people up about - they are very comfortable with shutting down the opinions of their members and MPs.

Slothtoes · 26/03/2022 20:54

They all know what a woman is. Every human being born does know. Some people in politics (from every party, and including some Tories!) just lie about not knowing the difference if it suits them, or if they are too scared not to lie. Or if they think it’s ‘kind’ of them to pretend that they don’t know Hmm
However politicians do know by now, that this policy position is to the detriment of women.
So it’s easy to know whether either they do care about women or that they absolutely don’t. And at the moment, taken as a whole and judging by their actions, it feels like none of the parties care about women.

Blossomtoes · 26/03/2022 20:24

I am confident that Liz knows what a woman is

I’m equally confident that she’d say whatever was expedient in order to get elected.

Needmoresleep · 26/03/2022 19:28

There is every chance that Boris won’t be leader of the Tories at the next GE, with Rishi or Liz tipped to replace him. I am confident that Liz knows what a woman is.

ResisterRex · 26/03/2022 19:04

Starmer loves telling us he was DPP. So he knows the sexual offences act. So he knows the legal construction of rape. He therefore knows what male and female biology is.

I'm not the one who's been at the Kool-Aid, here.

OatSprout · 26/03/2022 18:29

And when there’s political capital in something damaging to women? What happens then?

You get Keri Starmer saying TWAW.

MarshaBradyo · 26/03/2022 18:11

Denying biological reality sounds as Kool-aid as it gets.

tabbycatstripy · 26/03/2022 18:09

'Some of you are really drinking the Kool-aid.'

Seems to be a choice between different types of Kool-aid.

Blossomtoes · 26/03/2022 18:07

But I do feel the answer isn’t me starting to vote Tory. That’s just rewarding failure

Absolutely this. And rewarding not only failure, but continuous lying, austerity, taking from the poor to give to the rich, breaking their own laws, breaking election promises, the list goes on. I won’t hand my vote to a party that behaves like the lowest of the low. Some of you are really drinking the Kool-aid.

MarshaBradyo · 26/03/2022 16:51

A party that signs up to TWAW and transgender ideology concerns me

Changes could be sweeping and very hard to reverse. More than we’re seeing now.

So much so that I’m thinking of dd too when voting

EthelTheAardvark · 26/03/2022 16:30

@Nightlystroll

If Labour do get a kicking, the chances that it will be attributed to this issue alone (or even as the main issue) are realistically nil.

I don't understand this argument. People on this thread are saying that the only reason Boris is saying what he's saying is because he can sense there are votes in it. Are the Conservatives that much more politically aware and sensitive that they can read the political climate better? Because that's what you're actually saying. And if you believe that, then surely Labour need to get their act sorted rather than expect the electorate to sort their act for them.

Because if Boris really cared he would have done something about it by now.

And because the reality is that people will know perfectly well that there is no way that the election would have been won on this issue alone.

MyLittlePhonyPony · 26/03/2022 15:26

The sad fact is neither labour or conservatives care about women. A 2022 Tory government isn't going to change the patriarchy without a huge appetite for change and that isn't happening because women's rights and feminism in general (the proper kind, not the yay porn kind) has taken a bashing and there isn't an appetite for it.

And of course, whilst I accept that conservatives have largely made no changes for the better for women, labour are actively proposing changes for the worst.

No one said it was a good choice, but it's an exercise in damage limitation.

Slothtoes · 26/03/2022 14:38

Some people have short memories. The Tories won the 2019 GE with a landslide electoral majority bigger than Blair and Brown’s win in 1997. The Johnson government have a very comfortable 80 seat Parliamentary majority.

I can’t be arsed to look up how dismally Labour performed in 2019 but it was a complete fucking disaster. And I’m a Labour voter. So what do those two facts tell us?

  1. the Tories should have the confidence and feel they have the mandate to do decent things that they feel strongly about. Oddly, women-friendly policies are nowhere in their list. Though, I will give them an interest in free speech, that is appreciated. But general rule of thumb with any government with a big majority is, if not now to make the changes we want, then when? What are voters waiting for? What will it take for the government to do something for women?

  2. Labour have an absolute fucking mountain to climb to get elected again any time soon. They could use this time in the wilderness to listen to women about their concerns. Are they? Do they give a fuck about us? No. They’ve doubled down. So that’s very sad but it shows that women punishing Labour at the polls is having zero effect. They’re not listening. This one is a hard problem to crack because an alternative route could be for women to be involved in Labour as activists but that’s very risky and off putting for lots of women on this issue. So I don’t know what the answer is beyond contributing to money to crowdfund judicial reviews and writing to my MP. But I do feel the answer isn’t me starting to vote Tory. That’s just rewarding failure.