Page 15 | Boris has nailed colours to mast

Ridcully82 · 2022-03-23T12:41:06+00:00

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

JulieBeds · 23/03/2022 17:11

It's flummoxing to know what to do when you hate the Tories but they're the only ones speaking sense on this.

I can't vote Tory - but I can't vote for the other parties either.

What do you do when there are no viable alternatives? Not vote?

I wish very much we could vote on policies not parties.

Horcruxe · 23/03/2022 17:09

@midlifecrash

He’s not to be trusted on this or anything else. But it means the damage this is doing to Labour has been noticed

Agree. It is doing immense damage to Labour. Boris is still in saving his skin mode, and will do or say anything to try and save his job.

They've obviously realised by backing reality they are going to win votes from women.

I hate the Tories and will never vote for them no matter what, I just dont feel able to vote for Labour either right now.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 23/03/2022 17:09

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

As opposed to those who think that children should be injected with powerful drugs that will mess up their endocrine systems, brain development and bones, potentially permanently, and who think that male needs should always trump female needs, even down to male rapists being housed in female prisons because they choose to be....that is the 'right side of history'?

Mummyoflittledragon · 23/03/2022 17:09

@Calennig

Actually I see it completely the other way around. I see this gender ideology as an exercise in class privilege. The people promoting this don't give shit about the women from disadvantaged communities who are most likely to be most harmed by this - those that end up in prisons, homeless shelters, refuges and recovery centres. The privileged with degrees care not one crap about those women, who are far distanced from their lives. The privileged never imagine themselves ending up in one of those places so care not about what happens to those who do.

Absolutely this.

The option to opt out of mixed sex facilites is harder to access lower down the socioeconomic hierarchy you are.

Absolutely this. Totally. I’m going to have to have a big think when voting time come. Labour is a no no. Mind you, I live in such a Tory stronghold that I cannot imagine my vote will make one iota difference.

Cornettoninja · 23/03/2022 17:09

I’m not an activist when it comes to trans but I’m absolutely of the opinion that the movement has lost its rationality and perspective. I worry about my daughter experiencing perfectly normal feelings about her changing body and finding her way down a path that tells her it isn’t normal and means that she’s something she isn’t whilst promising fundamentally changing who she is will ‘fix’ everything.

But finding a voice that agrees with me belonging to a group that categorically shits over every other belief and moral I have isn’t enough to sway me from toppling them over.

On balance I’d rather argue my corner with those I disagree with but largely recognise my own values in than agree with those whose other values are so alien to my own.

Essentially this isn’t enough to get me to consider voting Tory. I’m a text book floating voter so my vote is absolutely up for grabs but I can’t see the current tories ever tempting me over.

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 17:08

I think he thinks this is our only chance to shaft Labour because they are shit on this. And he's right.

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 23/03/2022 17:07

I'll never vote Conservative. They are a dreadful government.

Boris Johnson might have said the mainstream words just now, but what he done about them? When he visibly and swiftly gets rid of the NHS's disgusting Annexe B, then I might start to believe he's not bullshitting.

But the fact he thinks this is a popular thing to say ought to make Labour think. But Labour won't. Labour's fucked.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 23/03/2022 17:06

@EmergencyHydrangea

Like the tory party has ever given one single fuck about most women.

What, you think Boris 'lying' when he says that he thinks that being a woman is rooted in biology? What do you think he really thinks then?

Unsure33 · 23/03/2022 17:06

@bozzabollix

It’s been proven that women have been overwhelming at the brunt of Tory economic policy, but this issue is supposedly important enough to let them carry on swinging the wrecking ball?

Fuck that, I want them out, they’ve wrecked this country for years, they’ve rogered our health system, our educational system, our economy is stifled by Brexit, I couldn’t give a shit about having a vagina, they need to go.

And no I’m not on the wrong side of history here. I’ve studied it, and it’s not pleasant seeing the country go backwards.

Very luckily we live in a democracy so no one is forcing your vote.

And luckily we live in a free speech country and those who do feel their vote will be swayed by this matter are free to voice their opinions .

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 17:06

", I couldn’t give a shit about having a vagina, "
Bully for you. One day it'll matter and it will be too late

lifeturnsonadime · 23/03/2022 17:06

Quite possibly the first time he's told the truth.

PronounssheRa · 23/03/2022 17:04

@Rosit

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

Boris also said 'The issue (gender distress) is one that the whole House is coming to realise needs tact, love and care.

So do you agree with this, or is also the wrong side of history because you don't like the messenger?

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 23/03/2022 17:04

@Rosit

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

Not in the slightest.

It's a view also shared by Rosie Duffield (Labour) and Joanna Cherry (SNP), among others, such as Jonny Best, Joanne Rowling, Maya Forstater, Helen Joyce and others I admire. Oh, and my young adult son.

A mainstream view that biological sex exists and that it matters and is worth researching (as is the social action of gendering) is not confined to the Tories.

It's not a binary. Some senior(ish) Tories themselves are gender ideology fans, e.g. Crispin Blunt MP, Penny Mordaunt MP, Caroline Nokes MP, and Maria Miller MP. Theresa May even fell for it when she was PM.

So, no thank you.

bozzabollix · 23/03/2022 17:04

It’s been proven that women have been overwhelming at the brunt of Tory economic policy, but this issue is supposedly important enough to let them carry on swinging the wrecking ball?

Fuck that, I want them out, they’ve wrecked this country for years, they’ve rogered our health system, our educational system, our economy is stifled by Brexit, I couldn’t give a shit about having a vagina, they need to go.

And no I’m not on the wrong side of history here. I’ve studied it, and it’s not pleasant seeing the country go backwards.

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 17:03

What FOJN said. Your argument is the equivalent of saying all vegetarians are Nazis because Hitler was a vegetarian.

SockFluffInTheBath · 23/03/2022 17:02

If believing that women should not be raped on single sex hospital wards (while a hospital lies to the woman and Police in part because of the rules surrounding GRC's) and believing that vulnerable women should not be incarcerated with males, including convicted sex offenders (who, given the amount of whom detransition the moment they leave prison, are clearly taking advantage of self id) puts me on what you believe to be 'the wrong side of history', I'm ok with that.

Me too.

FOJN · 23/03/2022 17:02

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

Not for a second.

Do you think supporting rapists being housed in women's prisons, denying women fair competition in sport or gaslighting rape survivors puts you on the right side of history? Do you think encouraging children to share a secret with another adult but keep it from their parents or supporting them to irreversibly alter their body before they are old enough to possess a driving license puts you on the right side of history?

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 17:02

The single-sex exemption didn't protect that poor woman who was raped in hospital and disbelieved for a year. Because the lunacy of de facto self ID means a predator with a dick got access to her. Even if he had a GRC, he'll have been one of the 80% of MtF GRC owners that keeps their dick.

EthelTheAardvark · 23/03/2022 17:00

Johnson is a known serial liar. I would put precisely zero reliance on this.

EmergencyHydrangea · 23/03/2022 17:00

Like the tory party has ever given one single fuck about most women.

whitecreambluejug · 23/03/2022 16:53

@FOJN

The way that GC people are spoken to and about by TRAs is nothing new to those women because they have been spoken to and about in that way by left-wingers who consider themselves moral betters since time immemorial. They have been told that they are selfishly voting in their own interest and not considering those who are in a different position, and in the next breath that they are stupidly voting against their own interest on another issue, which is also bad. The only common denominator is that the leftist believes herself morally, superior, and believes anyone who disagrees on any topic to be a very bad person. Which ought to be a familiar position to come here, based on the events of recent years.

I would describe myself as left of center but my refusal to engage in this kind or morally superior behaviour has given me cause to question it. I recognise the behaviour you describe here and I find it appalling. I have right leaning friends who appear to be very reasonable, kind and compassionate people, strangely they don't resort to name calling, shaming or guilting me when we disagree. It's a refreshing change from the tyranny of the people I do actually agree with.

Agree with all of this.

I've come to realise that the Left is a place of deep rooted intolerance of diversity.

Wheresthebeach · 23/03/2022 16:49

@5zeds

It’s a ludicrous situation to be in, but I won’t be voting for any party that doesn’t recognise women and their rights. The phrase Turkeys voting for Christmas has never been more apt. I want my daughters to compete in fair sporting competitions, be able to choose female medical practitioners and know they won’t be raped in their beds in hospital. I can’t describe how horrified I am by what the Labour Party has become.

Yep. This is the single most important issue for me. Our rights are being flushed down the toilet. I've never voted Tory...but if Labour doesn't get their house in order then I can't vote Labour. I won't spoil my vote. We have to protect our rights.

jhuizinga · 23/03/2022 16:49

@ohfook

I think Labour are beginning to listen. I received this reply from my local Labour mp who said Labour will be upholding single-sex exemptions.

But what does the Labour Party mean by the single-sex exemption? I suspect they will accept the definition of 'woman' in the Equality Act as being a 'female of any age' but will then define 'female' as the Scottish Government did yesterday (in the Court of Session?) as not necessarily meaning biologically female. So someone who is legally female is entitled to use women's single-sex spaces. Together with self-ID, single-sex spaces and services then become illegal. It's all so slippery and dishonest and I'm sure activists will make certain that these will be amongst the first things a Labour Government or Lab/Lib Dem coalition Government do (look at how Biden's Executive Order on Gender was made on his first day in office). This is why I think the threat to women's rights really is existential if Labour get into power and there is no way I will vote for them. I hate the Tories but I would rather suffer under Tory rule with rights than under Labour without them. The fact that Labour politicians are willing to lie, dissemble and go along with such a reality-denying, bat-shit ideology gives me no reassurance that their other policies will be any better.

whitecreambluejug · 23/03/2022 16:47

@Rosit

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

Do you think the fact that you choose to attack because of WHO said something, rather than WHAT they said, is a signifier that you have no coherent, evidenced arguments?

MedusasBadHairDay · 23/03/2022 16:41

@Rosit

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

If we asked Boris if gravity existed and he said yes would you expect to just float off into space in order to avoid agreeing with him?

Agreeing with him on biological sex existing and mattering doesn't mean agreeing with him on anything else.