Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Charlotte Nichols tells us all to "pipe down". I'm convinced....

92 replies

RVN123 · 23/03/2022 06:36

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10641645/Sharron-Davies-blasts-Labour-MP-dismissing-lazy-criticism-row-trans-swimmer.html

"Anyone nastily trying to diminish Lia Thomas's incredible achievement because of lazy transphobia should frankly pipe down. Huge congratulations to her.'"

Well, I'm convinced. I'm packing up my women's rights and fucking off into the glorious new world.

Pipe down you bigots!

OP posts:
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 23/03/2022 09:26

I wrote yesterday to my (male, Labour) MP on another women’s issue, mentioning that the Labour Party is getting a very bad reputation for misogyny. Today, I read that we should welcome men taking our medals.

Thank god for heroes like Sharron Davies. But I wish she was an MP.

IcakethereforeIam · 23/03/2022 09:17

I think her comment is massively bigotted against those of us who don't want to train, can't swim, not interested and/or are dead. If I want/don't want to compete can't I just submit my name on an email, they could pick it out of a hat. That would be properly inclusive. Or, if I can't be arsed sending an email, they could just drop a dart on a map of the UK, award the medal to whatever person (living or dead), who is closest to that point. The people who want to train and get wet can still do that but it'll pointless for all of them and not just the women. That seems fairer to me.

IncompleteSenten · 23/03/2022 09:16

It pisses me off that realistically it's men that are going to put an end to this lunacy.
Women who speak up are threatened.
Men who speak up are not. They are listened to and have more chance of people admitting to agreeing with them.
It's the same shit.

ShirleyBadass · 23/03/2022 09:15

@Rummikub

Two tw debating
I didn't catch her name, but the woman opposing India came across really well I thought.
Beowulfa · 23/03/2022 09:14

Thanks Charlotte for reminding me why I'll never vote Labour.

Georgeskitchen · 23/03/2022 09:12

The more people in the public eye speak out about this, the better. The general public are slowly waking up to what has been happening under our nosed for years. Hopefully more well known public figures will join the chorus!!

Mochudubh · 23/03/2022 09:11

The Governor of Florida disagrees with her.

Florida governor Ron DeSantis refuses to recognise Thomas win.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/60842863

RoyalCorgi · 23/03/2022 09:07

On the TRA side of the debate there's a lot of telling women to pipe down, shut up etc. It's because they know their own position is so flimsy it can't withstand any challenges. Any hint of logic and the whole thing collapses.

As a debating strategy it's doomed to failure.

PronounssheRa · 23/03/2022 09:05

@ChopinBoard

Is there a list of all the awful things Labour MPs/councillors have said in recent months?
Handy images for leaflets twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313?cxt=HHwWgsC5hdnh5YUoAAAA

I also started a thread but lost the will to live www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4360464-Labours-batshit-opinions-on-womens-rights

axolotlfloof · 23/03/2022 09:00

Is she telling the girls in her constituency to "pipe down" and congratulate males on their achievements?
If she's your MP, write to her, this is shit.

ChopinBoard · 23/03/2022 08:57

Is there a list of all the awful things Labour MPs/councillors have said in recent months?

flashpaper · 23/03/2022 08:56

Oh FFS! She's my MP 🤦🏼‍♀️ I've always voted labour but I'm now, like many others, politically homeless.

IncompleteSenten · 23/03/2022 08:48

What gets to me the most is you just KNOW they don't actually believe that what they are saying is scientifically, biologically true. In ten years (please God even less!) they'll be saying how bad it was and how privately they expressed concerns and trying to rewrite their role in it all.

It is frightening how a small group of people have managed to get this much control and influence simply by preying on the reality of female socialisation. Shut up woman. Know your place. Support those who seek to silence you.

Floisme · 23/03/2022 08:46

Reading that reminds me of Sophie Wilson - the Labour candidate who, if I recall correctly, got in a Twitter row with an abuse survivor and subsequently managed to lose Rother Valley.

Rummikub · 23/03/2022 08:44

Well that was pointless
Apart from getting air time

Rummikub · 23/03/2022 08:43

Two tw debating

terryleather · 23/03/2022 08:40

@ChiefInspectorParker

‘Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?’

Fuck off Charlotte

Indeed.

I've had enough of absolute melts telling the lessers that we're doing it wrong.

IncompleteSenten · 23/03/2022 08:37

What incredible achievement is that then?

The incredible achievement of winning only because you have a massive physical advantage over the others?

Yeah, achievement isn't the way I'd describe it tbh.

I'd be more likely to consider it someone who was tired of coming second at best.

DameHelena · 23/03/2022 08:37

@FromOurHatsToOurFeet

Is #pipedown the new #bekind? I think i prefer it - it's certainly more honest about what people really mean.
That's a fair point.
Rummikub · 23/03/2022 08:37

Being debated on gmb now

AlisonDonut · 23/03/2022 08:35

I have asked her who it was she was competing against - I'm guessing 'females' but she seems unable to respond.

FromOurHatsToOurFeet · 23/03/2022 08:34

Is #pipedown the new #bekind? I think i prefer it - it's certainly more honest about what people really mean.

NitroNine · 23/03/2022 08:29

Also, “lazy transphobia”?

It is lazy to sit there and applaud Thomas. It was lazy to let trans women into women’s sports. It is lazy to rely on testosterone as the measure to allow trans women to compete; & lazy to ignore recreational sport having had all boundaries dismantled.

It isn’t transphobic to want sport to be segregated by sex. And the work people are doing to try to ensure that girls’ & women’s sport continues to exist is anything but lazy.

In an ideal world Charlotte Nichols & all the other “ZOMG YOU TRANSPHOBES!” people would run laps while they reconsider this stance. Push-ups, sit-ups - let’s even bring in ballet punishments: silencing by (for example) petit allegro is a fine tradition. And then we can see how measurably differently men & women (of whatever gender identity) perform. If they really believe what they say, surely they’d jump at the chance to help with researching this claimed absence of difference in physical abilities between women & trans women? Doubtless those ranting on Twitter would be breaking down the doors of their local university’s Sports Science department were such a study to recruit.

In fact - why isn’t there any such study? It doesn’t need to be elite athletes, so it’s not a sample size problem. Participant names wouldn’t be published, there are no grounds to claim taking part would put an individual at risk. Covid has shown that such a study could very successfully run internationally, so refusing to participate because it was assumed to be “too white” (which would be foolish, given research must begin somewhere*) would be a non-starter. And as a bonus, we might even get some more research into exercise & the female body (crazy thought, I know, but I’m dreaming big this morning) simply by virtue of needing to have comparative data.

This - seriously & genuinely - is research to benefit trans people, but it isn’t being done. Trans men taking testosterone gain a very different muscle-building capacity: they need information about how best to use that safely, and studies to be looking at & for long-term implications. Exactly which weight-bearing exercise will be best for trans women and which for trans men plus what sort of regime for bone protection best suits each group needs researching given the heightened but non-identical osteoporosis risks.

  • I can’t imagine that a study with a majority of ethnic minority subjects/participants would be found acceptable either, mind you: I’ve seen people argue that black people should never be asked to be involved in medical research but medical research should never be done without them - & of course refuse to explain how that would actually be able to work. Not parody accounts, not being sarcastic, just rolling through in their luxury belief Zorb-of-Privilege where they always hold the talking stick & once they’ve come up with the wondrous solutions to the world’s problems it’s up to the little people to figure out how to actually enact them. Can’t expect them to do ALL the work - & in fact, do feel free to pay them for all this emotional labour Hmm
DameHelena · 23/03/2022 08:28

Just emailed my MP and will be interested to hear what she says. She's Labour, but a diehard Corbynista. I suspect she'll seize the chance to subtly put the boot in to Keir Starmer. Grin

I don't know anything about Nichols (save the bits and pieces I've just learned from this thread), but on the tweet itself, apart from its ill-informed starting position, it is not at all edifying, is it, telling women to 'pipe down’? Didn't Tory Cameron say something similar and get eviscerated for it?

ChiefInspectorParker · 23/03/2022 08:28

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Swipe left for the next trending thread