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Original poster

AIBU? Trans friend....

609 replies

OrchardBlack · 21/03/2022 22:41

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

OP posts:
Quaggars · 22/03/2022 09:04

Any inference that lesbians are just like transwomen, ie biological males, is implicitly implying that lesbians aren't quite women either

Nobody's saying lesbians are just like biological males though.
They're saying that you don't automatically think that lesbians are attracted to you/will sexually assault you because they fancy other women.
You're right, that is incredibly homophobic.
So how can people see and be disgusted by this (rightly) but can't see when it comes to transphobia?!

speakout · 22/03/2022 09:03

This reply has been deleted

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Synchrony · 22/03/2022 09:03

@TeaKlaxon

YABU

Let’s just be clear that a night out is not some sacrosanct ritual that no one else can join or make important to them. You were happy to have this person along when you thought she was a cisgender straight man. It doesn’t sound like this is some special occasion like a birthday that’s going to be detracted from by someone coming out.

Second, why would someone coming out make it all about them. Coming out literally just means it is her first night out presenting as a woman. How does that hijack your night? If she had said instead that she was a gay man and that would have been her first night out as an openly gay man, would that also be hijacking the night?

You have no obligations to this woman, but I think you should certainly examine your prejudices and be less shitty towards her.

Your friend on the other hand sounds awful - she claims to be a friend of this person but is unwilling to support them through transition. I hope this person realises sooner rather than later how awful your friend is to them and finds a better support network.

I agree with this. It's not a wedding. I doubt anyone else in the audience will care what they wear.

I feel really sorry for this person if this thread is a reflection is the "support" they can expect from their friends. No wonder they don't yet want photos sending to their family.

I've used mixed sex toilets. They all had cubicles. It was not a big deal.

SushiShopSearch · 22/03/2022 09:01

Male entitlement, again. I'd cut my losses and do something else (anything else) that evening. I wouldn't be part of their make-believe evening.

aSofaNearYou · 22/03/2022 09:01

Wow. Even totally setting the trans issue aside this is clearly a massive hijacking of your night out. If she won't speak to them I would let her make her Covid excuse, and ask someone else to go with you.

DarkShade · 22/03/2022 08:59

Does his partner know? I would feel massively deceived if DP was using nights out with female friends to practice living as a woman behind my back.

I think your friend should be honest. Say that she supports the transition and let's arrange a night our specifically for coming out, as she doesn't feel that this is the right night for it. If she lies about having COVID it will seem transphobic if he finds out. I think it can be framed in a way that is loving and supportive, if that is how your friend feels about the transition, while dissuading him from using this night for those purpose.

Alternatively Could she maybe bend the truth a bit and say that one of you has had a bad time or is going through a break up or its your birthday or career move celebration or something and this night is about that?

HipTightOnions · 22/03/2022 08:58

The objection was that someone who was attracted to women would be in the toilets

No, not "someone", the objection was about a man who is attracted to women.

frazzled1 · 22/03/2022 08:58

I'd wager the transwoman envisages a giggling girly trip to the ladies at some point for the 3 of them.

No thank you.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/03/2022 08:58

The argument for allowing men who identify as trans to use women's single-sex facilities is so thin you and others resort to the "But, but...LESBIANS!!!"

This is it. It's a lame gotcha, which implies they see some groups of women's sex based rights as something with the potential to be questioned, even though they don't necessarily think of them as lesser or different women consciously.

All female people have equal rights to use women's spaces, because they aren't straight women's spaces, they are based on sex.

Thirkettle · 22/03/2022 08:57

She couldn't have planned her own night out to do all this?

justaftb · 22/03/2022 08:57

Once more for the people at the back - lesbians are women, that is why they are in our single-sex spaces. Men who identify as trans are men, that is why they need to stay out of our single-sex spaces. It really is as simple as that.

Imagine in 2022 having to explain to people that lesbians and men are not the same thing.

AngelinaFibres · 22/03/2022 08:56

@Nincomepoop

Just tell him the night is about you and your friend catching up and having thought about it you’d rather not share the experience with someone you don’t know. Offer no further explanation. Just a firm no he can’t come. Go and enjoy the evening with your friend.
Definitely this. I would feel the same if a friend asked to bring an actual woman along that I didn't know. It would change the dynamic completely.
potniatheron · 22/03/2022 08:55

I would be super pissed off if someone I didn't know wanted to use a long-planned event with my friend to celebrate some milestone of their own. No matter what that milestone was. And I'd be not only pissed off, but damn suspicious if that person wanted to celebrate that milestone secretly, without telling their own family. It would make me feel used.

On top of that, I'd be pissed off, suspicious and OUTRAGED if this person then demanded that I and my friend should not take pics on our long planned night togethger.

JFC! Dump this dude as soon as you get to the event and enjoy your night with your friend. He's being a selfish prick, and he's expecting leeway just because he larps as a lady.

midlifecrash · 22/03/2022 08:55

Invite his girlfriend?

justaftb · 22/03/2022 08:53

[quote Lockheart]@trancepants the poster was not conflating lesbians with transwomen or implying that lesbians aren't women.

The objection was that someone who was attracted to women would be in the toilets. Another poster pointed out that lesbians are also attracted to women but there is no issue with them using the bathrooms.

This is not equating lesbians to men, or transwomen. The comparison is one of sexual attraction to women, not sex or gender identity.[/quote]
You do realise sexual assault has nothing to do with attraction and everything to do with power? Men don't sexually assault women because they "fancy" them, they do it to assert power and dominance, to show who is in control, because they are steeped in misogyny and see women as less than. They do it because they physically can.

The argument for allowing men who identify as trans to use women's single-sex facilities is so thin you and others resort to the "But, but...LESBIANS!!!"

Lesbians are women. They belong in our single-sex spaces. Men, no matter how spinny their skirt and how good they are at tilting their head in a bathroom selfie, do not belong in our single-sex spaces because they are men.

coffeeiwish · 22/03/2022 08:53

Doesn't sound like a fun night out to me. Sounds very stressful. Can you cancel and quietly rearrange with the people you want to go with for another time?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/03/2022 08:53

Comparing lesbians to men re who gets to use single sex female spaces is homophobic.

CrossStichQueen · 22/03/2022 08:52

Lockheart

Lesbians are female. Using the women's bathroom is because of their sex not their sexual orientation.
The transperson discussed here is male therefore has no right to use the female bathroom. The fact that this male is heterosexual does add further boundary issues as their intentions are unknown. AGP is a fetish and part of that is gaining access to women in spaces they are vulnerable.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/03/2022 08:52

And men don't, so it's not a good analogy.

Lockheart · 22/03/2022 08:51

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Lockheart

Another poster pointed out that lesbians are also attracted to women but there is no issue with them using the bathrooms.

Because they are women. They're not somehow lesser women. They don't have less right to use women's spaces than anyone else. To imply that straight women should be the arbiter of who uses women spaces is homophobic. Men, on the other hand, do not have any right to use women's spaces. It is not anything phobic for women to have their own spaces. You cannot see the homophobia of what you are implying.

You conveniently left off the final paragraph of my post. Lesbians are women and do have a right to use women's bathrooms.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/03/2022 08:49

Lockheart

Another poster pointed out that lesbians are also attracted to women but there is no issue with them using the bathrooms.

Because they are women. They're not somehow lesser women. They don't have less right to use women's spaces than anyone else. To imply that straight women should be the arbiter of who uses women spaces is homophobic. Men, on the other hand, do not have any right to use women's spaces. It is not anything phobic for women to have their own spaces. You cannot see the homophobia of what you are implying.

MrPickles73 · 22/03/2022 08:47

Your friend must tell other friend that you already planned this night out some time ago for the two of you and you think the coming out will be hard to encompass with your plans and the coming out will have to be a separate session. i.e. no they can't come with you.

Lockheart · 22/03/2022 08:45

@trancepants the poster was not conflating lesbians with transwomen or implying that lesbians aren't women.

The objection was that someone who was attracted to women would be in the toilets. Another poster pointed out that lesbians are also attracted to women but there is no issue with them using the bathrooms.

This is not equating lesbians to men, or transwomen. The comparison is one of sexual attraction to women, not sex or gender identity.

CruCru · 22/03/2022 08:44

@RJnomore1

To be honest this isn’t anything to do with trans stuff. It’s to do with someone hijacking another persons night out to make it all about them them them. Could have been say deciding it was going to be their birthday do instead . It’s not appropriate.
Yes, this is what I was going to say. It’s got to the point where the OP and her friend are going to cancel their night out, which is a shame.
trancepants · 22/03/2022 08:42

@Quaggars

imply that lesbians somehow aren't women. Shame on you! Where did they do that?! I read it as because they're attracted to women, you wouldn't automatically be scared of them, would you
Any inference that lesbians are just like transwomen, ie biological males, is implicitly implying that lesbians aren't quite women either. Anyone who doesn't automatically recognise that, ie you obviously, needs to examine why it is that isn't automatically obvious to them. Because it's really, really horrendously fucking homophobic. If you don't automatically see how disgusting that comparison is then your own homophobia is showing.
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