AIBU? Trans friend....

To be fair to the OP, she may well not have posted on the feminism board. Mnhq moves stuff across here because men's rights activists object to us talking about it.

Of course it's about behaviour and red flags for boundary pushing far more than it is about trans issues. You rarely hear of transmen behaving like this. In fact the OP contrasts the behaviour of this man with her transman friend. Women are right to be wary of males who push boundaries. It is known that their behaviour can escalate.

And to those crying transphobia, are you seriously telling me that the behaviour demonstrated so far by this man is inherent to having a trans identity? By doing so, you are enabling abusive males to use trans as a smoke screen. You are creating a special category of male whose intentions may never be questioned. Women then force themselves to ignore red flags. For fucks sake learn from the many many scandals that have already happened (Catholic Church, Saville, Michael Jackson, Scouts, Met Police etc). Men use special status to abuse.

Most transwomen are perfectly normal, reasonable people who do not wish to erode boundaries or use women as props.

Breaking it down from her POV
Female friend arranges girls night out with OP.

Friend knows heterosexual/bisexual male in a relationship with a female partner who invites himself along.

Heterosexual/bisexual male in a relationship with a female partner is now going out on a pissup with female friend (presumably single) and her female friend (presumably single) whom he has never met.

Hetrosexual/bisexual male making the night all his wants expecting OPs friend to manage the introduction between him and OP. To manage the relationship between him and OP. To manage the relationship between him and their (SM) friends.

To manage the relationship between him and his female partner because she is just going to love and adore the fact that he decided to exclude her, his partner, from this life event. Nothing says suportive friendship as much as being the other woman, without being the other woman.

[quote Lockheart]@trancepants the poster was not conflating lesbians with transwomen or implying that lesbians aren't women.

The objection was that someone who was attracted to women would be in the toilets. Another poster pointed out that lesbians are also attracted to women but there is no issue with them using the bathrooms.

This is not equating lesbians to men, or transwomen. The comparison is one of sexual attraction to women, not sex or gender identity.[/quote]
Women are often sexually attracted to women. It is, however, vanishingly rare for women to commit sexual violence. This is the reason for sexually segregated spaces.

Good grief. I hate the third wheel thing.

You think you're going to have a nice evening out with a friend and then they want to invite other people. It's never anyone you've ever met.

No, just NO!

Did her friend just invite themselves and your friend was too wet to say no?

If her friend wants to have a coming out occasion they can book their own evening and not hijack someone else's.

Someone, like your friend, started this nonsense in the first place, needs to tell her that she was expecting a different evening.

I've had this done to me quite a few times in my youth. Think friend wants to take me out for my birthday and takes me to someone else's fucking birthday party who I don't even know! Just to name one incident.

I'd be furious at your friend for doing this to you and would question the friendship.

They're saying that you don't automatically think that lesbians are attracted to you/will sexually assault you because they fancy other women. You're right, that is incredibly homophobic. So how can people see and be disgusted by this (rightly) but can't see when it comes to transphobia?

We all know that lesbians do not present a risk of assault to women in the way that men do. We know this through documented evidence of sexual assaults (97% are committed by men and the majority of their victims are women). We know this through our personal experiences of men and women. If we hear footsteps behind us at night, we feel relief if we turn around and see it is a woman, we tense if it is a man.

Its it reasonable to say that allowing males into women's spaces increases risks to women. To say there is not an increased risk you would need to evidence two things. (1) That no male would take advantage of this safeguarding loophole to voyeur upon or assault women. (2) That every male, by saying he identifies as a woman, poses the same risk to women as other women do.

If you can't evidence that, then you are saying that it is ok to put women at risk whilst you conduct this social experiment. Not that the experiment is taking place as the policy makers are too scared to gather the data on what is happening as a result of this policy and practice shift, because people like you call evidence gathering transphobia.

I think id tell my friend that you feel its going to be awkward now, and while you understand he has the right to go out however he wants, you feel that this is now making it all about him, when this is something you two have planned together for ages. You dont know him and your friend needs to ask him to do his coming out ceremony another time

Colly

The person in question is not a friend of the OP. The OP has never met them and given the fact that this male is unknown to her and is being secretive/lying to their partner the OP is right to be unsure of their intentions and unhappy that this male has already stated their intentions to use womens spaces.
Or are women not allowed boundaries?

It's completely reasonable for your friend to be uncomfortable about being forced to be involved in this "big reveal". It follows that you should are allowed to be uncomfortable too.
Your friend needs to be up front about this. She might dodge it this time but tbh, if he has latched onto her as "good old Sue" he may just postpone until the next time they go out.
Awkward all round.

If your creep radar is going off, which it sounds like it is - loudly - then listen to it.

This is good advice. The more naive posters here need to learn to trust their instincts when they are uncomfortable.

Does his wife know about this ? If not you need to make it clear you won't be party to his "coming out" parade until he has told his wife and family.

So your night out has been hijacked by a man who wants to cosplay and is railroading 2 women to be part of it?

This. He's all excited at the notion of a "girly"night out, and all that stuff about sharing fucking make up tips etc. It's a male (porn-fuelled) fantasy about what women are, and they think they can appropriate it.

You'll be told you're being unkind and transphobic. But he's the one being sexist and appropriating an identity that is not his.

why would he face abuse in the mens toilets? Are males all inherently abusive.

Indeed. And if they are, perhaps that's why certain places are segregated by sex.

Unless you think it doesn't matter if a woman is subject to male abuse, only when men are.

Trans issue aside, it sounds like a shite night out that's been totally hijacked by a narcissistic drama queen that you haven't even met.

That's kind of the key point. Quite often you can, and should, put the trans issue aside.

The "trans issue" is an enabler for narcissistic drama queens. It's one way of avoiding pushback for narcissistic drama behaviour.

So naturally you see people who want to act like that using the label.

You can just treat them like you'd treat anyone else. If you wouldn't accept it from either a woman or a man, you definitely don't have to accept it from a "transwoman".

You don't even need to go anywhere near the sex/gender debate to draw that line.

And drawing that line would actually help make progress on that debate...

Although, of course, if some narcissistic drama queen is playing that game, then they will likely counter any non-compliance with an accusation of "transphobia". (And that will confirm that's the game they're playing). You just have to be confident that you're not letting any non-trans people act the same way to counter that...

I can't believe this is a genuine post. It reads like the content has been specifically designed to whip up maximum hate. The OP later asserts that it's not about trans rights but about having her night out highjacked - so why post it in the Feminism board?

And many of the responses
We women can think whatever we like about men living as women and women living as men, gender transitioning and trans rights etc etc etc - for what it's worth I am sceptical of many aspects - but that should be a campaign for / against government policy and should never spill out into hate against individuals - an actual FRIEND in this case - and their choices.

So, if the post IS genuine, I have the following advice for OP and her female friend:

1. You've got no idea how the evening is going to pan out or what it will make you feel until you try it.
2. If you feel uncomfortable about your other friend using the ladies toilets then perhaps need to look more closely at your choice of friends! I would have none of this kind of worry about any of my friends using any kind of toilet because I try not to associate with sex offenders.
3. Chances are you will have the same brilliant night out that you would have done if it was just the two of you, or maybe even more fun. It may open your eyes to the lived experiences of others. Give it a go.

Just go and have your good night out.

The friend’s use of toilets is not your problem, it’s theirs.

If I was your friend I would be saying to Trans friend “great, get on with it, however you feel best, but this is our long planned event so we’ll just be doing our normal thing, no additional agenda, and tbh am reluctant to be complicit in anything your wife /family are unaware of as I don’t like secrets”.

I would be annoyed that this person is invited and plans to use this night to come out! So it’d be a no from me and I’d go with someone else.

But when the issues is males feeling threatened by men, we are told that it is inconceivable that they should be put at risk and of course they should be in women's spaces.

And that just shows the deep underlying misogyny in society that this movement is feeding off.

I don't really understand to be honest. Your entitled to not want to be out with someone if you don't wnat to be and can unuvite them if you choose. That's your chocie but they have every right to dress how the choose as well just the same as they couldn't tell you not to turn up in a suit or in a mini body con dress. Photos well, I ahve female friends who will not let pictures be posted of them online.
Trans people can be attracted to either sex, and they are in a long term relationship so I can't see why you would be concerned. To be honest I've never understood the toilet arguments but that's me, I'm happy with unisex toilets.

So people can only ever assault others if it's coming from a place of power?

newyearnewname

Lesbians are women/female and as we know women/ females pose miniscule sexual risk to other women. Transwomen are male and again as we know males commit 99% of all sexual assaults.
Let's not forget that lesbians being women can use the women's toilets as its their space. Transwomen are male and it is not their space.