AIBU? Trans friend....

First, many toilets are not segregated at all. Just this last week I have been at a theatre with unisex bathrooms - just a series of cubicles used by men and women.

Second, no one has ever had to do a chromosome test, genital test or show their birth certificate to use a bathroom. There are no rules, much less laws, that require they be used only be people who meet one specific definition of men or women. There never have been.

Third, and linked to the above, trans people have been using bathrooms that align with their gender identity for generations.

Fourth, legally trans people are permitted to use facilities associated with their gender identity under the Equality Act. The exception to this is extremely limited - there can be no blanket ban on trans women using womens bathrooms for example.

So no, toilets are not segregated by sex.

What's more, OP's chances of sharing a toilet with a trans woman will not be significantly altered by her friend's friend joining their night out. Trans women who pass will tend to use the women's bathrooms. Trans women who don't pass tend not to. Despite all of the conjecture about her friend's friend relishing the ladies bathroom, she is probably dreading it and may well be seeking out gender neutral spaces to avoid awkwardness. Of course that doesn't suit the bigoted 'narcissist/fetishist' trope that folk here want to trot out but it is the reality.

Surely that's just the same as anyone going on a night out and not wanting their photo taken though?
I can't see where they've said no photos of the night to be taken at all or of anyone?

I think it's the phrasing. In the OP it says "no photos of the night etc" and that does imply none of them would be taking any photos, which would be very arrogant of him. If that isn't how he phrased it, it might be different.

Also all of this thread and nowhere does it actually say what bogs the friend will be going in.
Even the OP says they're just assuming as they don't know!

So unbelievably sick of this misogynistic homophobic shit!!!

He shouldnt be going in the women's toilets and if he can't go in the men's because of fear of being attacked- well men being aggressive towards men because they are wearing feminine apparel is a male problem, nothing to do with women

Just tell it how it is. He isn't a woman, never will be, and isn't welcome in women only spaces. End of.

He has hijacked your night and demanding that you don't take photos is very controlling of him

Surely that's just the same as anyone going on a night out and not wanting their photo taken though?
I can't see where they've said no photos of the night to be taken at all or of anyone?
Loads of people don't want their photo taken on a night out.

So forgetting the specifics of the trans issue, on a personal level it seems pretty odd and tone deaf to tag along on someone else’s pre-planned night out (particularly when you guys don’t even know each other) and announce that the night will be about them and their personal milestone (birthday, graduation, coming out, whatever) and as such they will be dictating the details / ‘rules’ of the evening (eg no photos).

They’ve invited themselves along and hijacked your night. The evening wasn’t meant to be about them. Bad manners and socially clumsy. They sound a bit self-absorbed and oblivious to other people.

And to those crying transphobia, are you seriously telling me that the behaviour demonstrated so far by this man is inherent to having a trans identity? By doing so, you are enabling abusive males to use trans as a smoke screen. You are creating a special category of male whose intentions may never be questioned

This is so true.

Can't question any behaviour if it comes from transwomen or its transphobic?

When does that apply to any other group? I can act like I want because I am mixed race? to not actively encourage and support my poor behaviour is racist? Or misogynistic?

It's pretty simple.
He's a man, he has a girlfriend, he's never "come out" as a TW before but he wants to do it on the OP's night out.
It's therefore clear that he's still a straight male with all the associated equipment, and is potentially a risk to females in a female environment, because he may be an AGP and may get "excited" about being in a dress.

It's got fuck all to do with lesbians, because lesbians are women and lesbians/women have an exceptionally low rate of sexually assaulting other women in toilets etc. Not saying it's a zero rate, because it isn't - but it's massively, massively lower than male sexual assault on women, and massively lower than male sexual assault on males.

house

Why is the OP unreasonable to be wary of an intact hetrosexual male using the women's bathroom?

He has hijacked your night and demanding that you don't take photos is very controlling of him. Can you go with someone else, and your friend can do the Covid thing and tell him the night's off?

This ‘friend’ is a selfish wanker hijacking some one else’s night out for their own personal gratification.

Why would anyone want to be friends with someone so incredibly self centred??

I love how @collyfleur has indignantly written FRIEND in capital letters, when OP clearly states in the opening post that she has never even met him 🤣.

YANBU to want your night out with your friend to be the coming out party of someone you don't know.

YABU for I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

CollyFleur

I'm thrilled for you that your life so far has been free from abuse.

I also try not to hang out with sex offenders but it didn't stop the very worst from happening. A friend of a friend, no less, and someone that no doubt goes around life identifying as a good guy.

Safeguarding is a blunt tool but until abusive males wear a flashing light on their head that, and recognising red flags, is all we've got. It's not as if the woeful prosecution rate does anything to deter males from abuse.

Can your friend not just say to her friend

“I don’t think this is the best night for your coming out. Orchard and I had this planned for a while and she doesn’t actually know you. I think it’s best if just Orchard and I go to the event, but please do invite me to your coming out evening when you reschedule it”

They can do as they please but you can’t make an event that someone else has organised all about you (as in the friend can’t)!

I think reactions like this are why conversations about women’s spaces are so hard to have.

It doesn’t sound like you’d be happy with her coming even if she didn’t use the ladies loos so anything you say on the subject just sounds transphobic.

Saying that you’re supportive of people choosing how they live doesn’t make it true.

women are scared all the time of men.
I wouldn't wear a dress on a night out because the last time I did, a man put his hand up my skirt. (not the first time either.
I wouldn't wear a low cut top because I don't like men making comments about my breasts. or worse trying to "honk" them. or guess the size bra, or ask if I'm even wearing one.
If I can change the way I dress to mitigate filthy, disgusting male behaviour then surely a man transitioning to female can too? it seems to be obvious.
you can wear feminine clothes that aren't sun dresses. Like some nice trousers and a floral top? I mean I have seen men wear more flowers and pink than i have, normal mens clothes with pretty patterns.
This makes me feel uncomfortable and the idea that he wants to keep it secret makes the red flag alarm go off in my head. We all know secrets are dangerous. And the 'you can't take photos' thing. So you don't want any evidence of the night out? Coming out to a friend and a stranger? I mean if I wanted to get my rocks off wanking in the girls toilets to girls pissing and get away with it I'd do what this fella is asking. An expendable friend, keep it a secret with a stranger, ask for no photos. I don't know. it seems dodgy and I would have been sucked into the facade as a teen but as an adult I wouldn't put myself in that situation just incase.
just incase this man is trying to trick me into being alone in the bathroom with him so he can rape me.

And if that's transphobic then I don't give a fuck. I might have a different opinion if the person in question had been transitioning for a while and wasn't coming out to me as a stranger. But if they still have a dick after 10 years even, I sure as shit am going to be careful because men rape and kill women and I don't care who I offend anymore trying to keep myself protected from that.