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Original poster

Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 4

748 replies

Whatamesssss · 21/03/2022 15:07

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

Thread three, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4507443-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-3

Abbreviations:
BC = Ben Cooper QC, counsel for
MF = Maya Forstater - Claimant
AP = Anya Palmer, assisting BC
OD = Olivia Dobbie, counsel for the respondents
EJ = Employment judge, leading the panel
Panel = any one of the 3 members

CGDE (CGD Europe) – Respondent 1

CGD = Centre for Global Development – Respondent 2

LE = Luke Easley, Vice president for HR and operations at CGD, first witness for CGD
AG = Amanda Glassman, Chief Operating Officer, Senior Fellow and Board Secretary of CGD and a Trustee of CGD(Europe), second witness for CGD
MP = Mark Plant, Chief Operating Officer of CGD Europe, third witness for CGD
MA = Masood Ahmed, President of CGD and Chair of the Board of CGDE – Respondent 3, fourth witness for CGD

EM = Ellen MacKenzie, an off-stage character at CGD, involved in much that went on.

Maya's website has lots of relevant information and is collating the live tweets.
www.hiyamaya.net

twitter.com/tribunaltweets is the account to look at for the live tweets. Plus some live posting and discussion on these threads.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

They will send you pin number and a link to log in to the tribunal.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Original poster
Whatamesssss · 23/03/2022 12:31

@tabbycatstripy

OD is going to reply and is ready (and sounds like she's raging).
Maybe it was the magpie comment.
OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 12:30

OD is going to reply and is ready (and sounds like she's raging).

NecessaryScene · 23/03/2022 12:27

Thanks re 'all fours'. I had a quite different understanding of it. Smile

How's the court sketch going, btw?

NecessaryScene · 23/03/2022 12:26

Tanks for that.

DomesticatedZombie · 23/03/2022 12:26

It's tanking, for sure.

NecessaryScene · 23/03/2022 12:25

It underlines yet again the jaw-dropping narrowness and ignorance of this ideology. Nobody has a hinterland; nobody seems to have any knowledge or awareness about anything before the Year Zero of their espousal of the cause - or if they do, they can’t/won’t admit it.

Even if they didn't get the cultural reference, which makes me sad, if you watched the video it was totally unambiguous that the hand represented the government - it was shown at one point as giving the gender recognition certificate to a more human hand.

You would expect a schoolchild to be able to answer a "who does the hand represent" question in some sort of media studies course...

And this is a think tank!

DomesticatedZombie · 23/03/2022 12:24

Thanks re 'all fours'. I had a quite different understanding of it. Smile

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 23/03/2022 12:22

This can't finish this morning. OD has 40mins for rebuttal. I should think BC might want to reserve some time as well.

Is it possible to run into the afternoon?

Zeugma · 23/03/2022 12:19

I’m also fascinated to see that email from the woman who worked on the FPFW video. Saul Bass immediately jumped into my mind when I saw it; in fact I even dug out my copy of Anatomy of a Murder to compare.

It underlines yet again the jaw-dropping narrowness and ignorance of this ideology. Nobody has a hinterland; nobody seems to have any knowledge or awareness about anything before the Year Zero of their espousal of the cause - or if they do, they can’t/won’t admit it.

PrincessPaws · 23/03/2022 12:19

Thanks!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/03/2022 12:16

Holly Shulman, Comms Director

PrincessPaws · 23/03/2022 12:15

Who is HS?

tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 12:06

Email from HS when the whole thing kicked off:

'Cool. We are chatting later today. I totally understand where everyone is coming from. But insert the word gay or African American into some of those tweets and I’m not sure how it would really be different. It probably is but I can’t tell how. '

I can. Funnily enough, it's when you ask people, and actually engage with what they're saying, rather than sending snide emails round calling them 'dumb', that you get the information you need.

tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 12:05

:)

I shouldn't make jokes.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 23/03/2022 12:02

Being on all fours means, broadly, that something exactly fits within a legal rule - it meets all the criteria you need to meet

TheWayOfTheWorld · 23/03/2022 12:02

Replied to wrong post - sorry! Was talking about the phrase "on all fours"

Blush
TheWayOfTheWorld · 23/03/2022 12:01

@tabbycatstripy

'I read only about 25% of the tweets before making up my mind they were fairly innocuous but upon closer inspection, prompted by you, I now see they clearly are not. Lesson learned, and my thanks to you.'

Also email from LE, this one to HS. No wonder he was so wet in his evidence. He had already signed his confession as a possible heretic, and couldn't afford to step out of line again.

Yes - means it matches the fact pattern of other case law
Original poster
Whatamesssss · 23/03/2022 12:01

@DomesticatedZombie

He does keep talking about things being on all fours. Is that a legal term? Blush
“On all fours” is a metaphor used by legal practitioners to describe a previous case with facts that are substantially similar to the case at issue.
OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 12:01

No, I think he just likes talking about it.

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 23/03/2022 12:00

strong, outspoken and often irritating = female

"strong, confident, provocative and challenging" = male, obvs

tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 12:00

'I read only about 25% of the tweets before making up my mind they were fairly innocuous but upon closer inspection, prompted by you, I now see they clearly are not. Lesson learned, and my thanks to you.'

Also email from LE, this one to HS. No wonder he was so wet in his evidence. He had already signed his confession as a possible heretic, and couldn't afford to step out of line again.

DomesticatedZombie · 23/03/2022 12:00

He does keep talking about things being on all fours. Is that a legal term? Blush

FromOurHatsToOurFeet · 23/03/2022 11:58

'strong, outspoken and often irritating' Again, pipedown, wheesht...

tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 11:57

This, from the bundle, from LE:

'Here’s a draft of an email to Maya. Comments welcome, particularly around what I’ve asked Maya to do next. I think important because what she is saying directly contradicts the DEI work to which we have committed.'

They were very clear that their 'DEI' work required particular vocabulary to be used. They certainly did take an institutional position, they just failed to communicate it, manage her or take account of her legal rights in formulating it.

PrelateChuckles · 23/03/2022 11:56

Quoted the wrong post Grin