Trans athlete wins in female swimming race

. You’re funny, greasyshoes. “Incredibly small sample size” . Yeah, coz those two women count for nothing…

That's tennis though, which is a game that's as much about skill as it is about raw strength. It's an incredibly small sample size too, only two women; the majority of people won't be the best at any sport, no matter how hard they train.

I doubt the Williams sisters being unable to beat Braasch had anything to do with fitness or physical strength. Serena Williams is extremely powerful and physically strong. There's no way a smoker and binge drinker could be stronger than her.

Take the Williams sisters. Raised from when they were tiny to be supreme athletes. Absolutely zero socialisation to be anything else. Encouraged, funded, trained - every waking moment.

Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[59][58] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[60] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[58] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[61]

I think parkrun is a great example. Men and women of all ages and abilities running together. Some women will beat some men but the "winner" is ALWAYS a man. I looked at the 500 fastest ever times for my local one and there were only two women in the top 200. The fastest time for a woman was 140th.

"My finals spot was stolen by Lia Thomas, who is a biological male. Until we all refuse to compete nothing will change. Thanks for all the support retweets and follows I wont stop fighting."

Tweet tonight from Reka Gyorgy who took part in the meet, not verified yet: mobile.twitter.com/RekaGyorgy_/status/1505654417848213506

I have 4 teenage boys and have watched them in school swimming galas for years. WITHOUT FAIL - there are some really good female swimmers who are suddenly obliterated by previously average or barely able to swim boys in the final year of primary school once they are 6m or so into puberty. You cannot argue with testosterone.

Read Invisible Women. Do that anyway, but notice the section on comparative strength (roughly, statistics along lines of proving weak old man outgrips athletic young woman)

@greasyshoes, wouldn't you agree that only elite men can compete fairly with other elite men, elite women cannot compete due to biological sex differences and therefore need their own competition?

My son runs as a sprinter. A lot of the events he runs are open; you are placed in a heat according to your PB. They are ranking events which contribute to PBs, club points etc. For a popular event like 100m, there might be 10 heats. The first, slowest heats might be anyone - a 70 year old man, an 11 year old girl etc. Gradually as you watch the heats things change. Even in a very ordinary local club athletics meet, the top 2 or 3 heats will be all male. You can imagine the Olympics being run in the same format and not a single woman would get a prize, TV time etc. Who would care?

Shoot, above I should say men are more likely too understand the disparity.

Lots of people now just sit in offices all day, they are pretty sedentary, and then you have films and tv with women and men physically on par.

I would also like to add that before transitioning Lia was not considered a strong swimmer as a man. It's only after transitioning that she is doing well.
Funny how there seem to be a lot of average male athletes who decide to transition. It's always that way round.

For reference I am absolutely supportive of people who want to transition, your body, your choice. However it is unfair to compete in sports particularly transitioning women.

My children are competitive swimmers.
Before puberty I would say that my son could have been beaten by a girl should he have competed directly against one. After puberty there is no chance. His times are faster than the equivalent female swimmer' times. To qualify for regionals and nationals their qualifying times are much faster than a woman's.
Swimming is not a sport where women and men can compete directly against each other. The only sport where this is possible is equestrian sports.

A year or two later i had to start pretending that the only reason i was backing out of said pushing fights was because the floor was too slippy when i had my socks on

So if you get one or two young men on here in a few years saying that they can’t beat their mum in a pushing fight i take full responsibility, both for lying to them and obviously rearing idiots

And besides which, I don’t think anyone disagrees that there maybe an overlap, small though it is, between a woman who has trained to be incredibly strong having more strength than a very weak male.

However, positing that a male at the same weight, musculature, height etc doesn’t have any advantage over a female of the same measurements is called ‘never reading the science papers’.

I remember we had a poster like this last year. They were absolutely determined that they, as a weak transitioned male, was weaker than their fiancé or wife. And therefore should be allowed to continue to play women’s football.

They also continued to reject that they also had all these other advantages, including no menstrual issues. Because it didn’t suit their personal needs.

Most of us are fairly weak and flabby. I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of women were physically stronger and faster than I am

Oh behave…

Dh and i are in our 50’s, i outweigh him and outheight him and i still don’t stand a chance against him

Ludicrous….a complete embarrassment

I think that if you grow up with siblings of the opposite sex it becomes quite apparent when boys become stronger than girls.

@Midlifemusings so there aren't then, as that was a woman becoming a transman.

Do you think that because a woman hurt you there is no physical disparity?

My toddler hurt me...

Greasy misses the point that we are comparing elite with elite. Not elite with the bloke down the road.