Musculing in on the menopause

This isn't the worst I've seen. To be honest female people who take cross sex hormones or have a hysterectomy need to know that these will trigger early menopause and specifically how early menopause will affect their body and long term health.

In the past I would probably have been more 🤷🏻‍♀️ About this but now I’m with Babdoc. It’s thin end of the wedge stuff like pronouns. It’s about dissociating things that only women go through with the word women. Men do not go through menopause & im sick and tired of language being fucked about with. Being a trans man means you will go through menopause in fact you will probably go through it earlier because you’re fucking about with hormones.

If I was forced to put myself into one of the boxes GI is trying to create, I'd call myself agender. Are they saying I won't experienced menopause? I briefly understood it as saying that some women will never stop having periods. It's not well written and does not even accomplish their 'inclusivity agenda' as it lists such a small number of gender identities. Menopause has got nothing to do with identity and it's confusing to start to suggest that it does.

We're talking about an article written in Horse and Hound (H&H)?

Yes, but just because you and your horsey tribe aren't trans or non binary, doesn't mean no one else who is?!
Surely you don't think you speak for everyone who likes horses

Theunamedcat - because that term (and "non-binary person") doesn't exclude the males who want to feel included! It really should say "not every woman, transman or non-binary female person....." Bit of a mouthful though - I think "not every woman or female person" covers it.

"While not every female...." which covers every biological woman doesn't it?

Well, yes, but also the aforementioned horses and hounds, so it's casting the net rather wider than needed.....

A woman who has taken testosterone will have had an early 'menopause' anyway. A medically induced menopause

This isnt the worst example i have seen.

No, but it's illustrative of why it's dumb not to have "woman" mean "adult human female". It becomes impossible to write coherently and succinctly about adult human females when you don't have a word for them.

And you have to write about adult human females quite a lot - they're a coherent material group. Unlike social constructs such as "gender women" or "non binaries" or "trans people".

Why are people afraid to use the words transmen why dies it have to be shortened down into "trans"

I don’t have an issue with this. Women aren’t reduced to body parts and transmen/nb females will feel included.

There’s much worse examples out there.

This isnt the worst example i have seen. Personally i would like to see the phrase women and other female people. I get some females may not identify as women but, regardless of how you identify, if you are menopausal you are female, and pretending otherwise is just dangerous.

If they were really on the ball, and wanted to inform inclusively, they couldhave pointed out that young women on puberty blockers or cross sex hormones might undergo very early menopause, with potentially life threatening side effects.

Can’t get too worked up about their rather clumsy attempt at inclusivity. Had they avoided the word women and used menopausal people or some equally confusing term, it would be a good deal more insulting.

This is an example of inappropriate inclusion as the description of trans and non-binary people includes males.

It’s referring to trans men though who don’t like to be referred to as women even though they are biologically female.

Why should we all have to tiptoe around people who are in denial about reality?

Adult female humans are women, however they like to identify. What will be next? The medical profession unable to refer to groups of people who are obese, or elderly, because those people don't like to think of themselves in those terms?

Sometimes, as in healthcare, it is more important to be able to accurately identify a group of people than to pander to those who would prefer to deny reality.

I'll give you a clue: its target audience is not buying it to read about, for example, bathroom redesigns; caravanning holidays; the history of modern Europe 1880-1935; or buying a retirement home in the south of France.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

We're talking about an article written in Horse and Hound (H&H)?

As a horsey woman (person?), that particular tribe is... well, let's just say historically fairly non-woke.
Of all the audiences that you would make an effort to pull inclusive terms into, H&H would more or less be at the bottom of my list.

Sorry, I genuinely don't get your point?
You and your horsey tribe don't identify with being trans, or non binary.
Fair enough if so.
How then is it about you though?
Surely it's clearly not aimed at you.

As a horsey woman (person?), that particular tribe is... well, let's just say historically fairly non-woke.

Of all the audiences that you would make an effort to pull inclusive terms into, H&H would more or less be at the bottom of my list.

One cannot identify out of having a menopause, however one might wish to!

No, but surely the message in the original post acknowledges that, by saying they can suffer too?

There would be no confusion if we stuck to “sex” for medical, factual, and scientific purposes, and left “gender identity” for social use. One cannot identify out of having a menopause, however one might wish to!

And while not every woman, or trans or non-binary person,

I don't have a problem with this as I think it's obvious from the context they are talking about female people.

I've never been that het up about saying 'women, trans men and [whatever you are allowed to call female NB people]'

What's crap is where they say "25% of people have serious menopause symptoms" which is meaningless because you can't tell which group of 'people' it's referring to.

Or where you can't tell what's actually being said and if it's relevant to one sex or another.

Transmen suffer symptoms of menopause because they are actually women, User.

Yes I get that. I’m a gc feminist. But on this occasion, whilst the need for the distinction isn’t strictly there, it is polite and respectful. If it referred to trans women then that would be nonsense and gaslighting. If it referred to men it would similarly be misleading and inaccurate because trans men are not men they are trans men.

On this occasion I think the reference to trans men is as good as can be hoped for in this crazy mess.

Transmen suffer symptoms of menopause because they are actually women, User.
I am sure that, whatever their gender identity, they are perfectly well aware that they cannot deny the reality of their physical body when it needs medical treatment, and their doctor also needs to recognise that reality.