Sports segregation

Just watched Lia Thomas’s latest swim. Even though she won, you can tell that she hardly used her legs at all compared to the women in the race. When you’re looking for it, it’s so obvious.

And now because of this ridiculous situation whereby sex and gender mean the same thing some governing bodies (England Netball) are allowing boys to play in girls tournaments.

I had great fun watching my 9 year old daughter’s amazing school netball team win every single match in a tournament…until they got to the final, where the team had two huge boys dominating the game. The other team won, not because of their skill but because of their size and likely the ability the boys had from taking part in other sports. Two of the girls were also injured.

I think it's that:

A man is anyone who says they're a man, and a woman is anyone who says they're a woman. (I'm nodding to nonbinaries but not going to comment on that because in sport, NB is thus far not acknowledged).

Without men or women, no one can have a "gender identity" at all.

If gender ideologists were to campaign for mixed sex spaces for everyone everywhere it would undermine the very important gender identities of people who feel very strongly that they're men or women. They'd have nothing to compare their identity to and no one else around to validate their very important gender identity.

Keeping male and female categories in all areas of life is important so that people with a gender identity can express their true selves.

The main negative consequences of segregating sports on the basis of gender identity is that it will discourage teenage girls (vulva people?) from having the goal of excelling in sports as the dice will then be loaded against them.

As it is good to encourage physical activity in all people, this is not good.

The sex-segregation in many sports is because human bodies come in two major variants and out of the two variants the male bodies (having undergone male puberty) have certain built-in advantages which mean that individuals with female bodies are unlikely to medal that often if male-bodied people are allowed to compete in the same events. There are a few (very few) spots where the female body has the advantage, and in those male-bodied people would medal seldom.

That segregation has nothing to do with gender identity, of course.

And the 'rare Michael Phelps talents' argument has the flaw that possessing a male body is not at all rare as about half of all people do possess it.

Martina's going to love that.

Ah, she's seen it.

As with toilets and changing rooms and spas, they could have spent the last few years campaigning for a third space, or - better still - campaigning to make men - males - more open minded and accepting of fellow males in who present and identify in a different way.

But instead they have focussed on a campaign to get access to women's safe spaces, spaces where women get undressed or partly undressed or are naked or sleep. And in sports, get scholarships, prizes and sponsorships too.

I am genuinely looking to understand the arguments trans-activists might be making.

It's basically "X is a woman - it's women's sports, therefore X should be in women's sports". Everything else is working backwards to justify that ideological stance.

You could try this new article, reviewed by Helen Joyce as "The most stupid article that has ever been run on anything, ever"

Lia Thomas and the long tradition of 'gender policing' female athletes

For as long as women have excelled at sports in the modern era, their gender and sexuality have faced fierce scrutiny, historians say.

They put Lia Thomas next to Martina Navratilova in the photo heading. (Sorry, don't know who the runner is!) Martina's going to love that.

Actually, I’ve just realised it would be the category of fat fifty year olds, and I’d still lose. Oh well.

Michael Phelps feet, not get

Isn’t the argument that sports people only won because they are unusual anyway, with some kind of reference to Michael Phelps get inserted? And that we should all compare in different leagues that are somehow sorted by the myriad of differences, rather than the one main difference, sex? Which is lovely, because then in the future, I can compete at the Olympics in the category of fat fifty year old women who haven’t exercised for ten years and actually have a chance in winning. Hire inclusive is that?

I get the impression that a lot of trans activists are not very sporty as the one's I have encountered seem to think that the main point of sport is to be affirmative and inclusive.

They don't seem very bothered about other elements of sport like fairness, safety and competition. They also aren't very interested in the idea of inclusiveness when it comes to the females who don't feel safe or able to access a fair playing field when competing against someone who is bigger, stronger and more powerful as a result of much larger amounts of testosterone during puberty.

There are far too many of these sorts of threads, looking for traces of logic in TRA thinking and wondering why they can’t explain it.

You’ll never get an answer OP because there isn’t one. They know sport is segregated by sex for very good reasons. The reality is you’ll never get anyone to admit that they’re campaigning for, or should be campaigning for all sports to be mixed sex because the actual reason for campaigning for sports to be segregated by gender identity is mostly for validation, with a smattering of people who love to dominate and just don’t care (think our friendly cyclepath).

But they’ll never openly admit to that.

Certainly for those who claim there is no male advantage.

Some however claim that the male advantage somehow disappears when people transition. Others seem to argue that transwomen just happen to be a very strong fast sort of woman while transmen are rather slow weak men. And others don't make that sort of argument at all, they say that inclusion is more important, even in elite sport. By which they mean inclusion of the more oppressed identities.

I don't know what is wrong with your knee.

Do you have a sore knee or do you just identify as someone with a sore knee?

We don't need them segregated by gender identity, we need them segregated by sex. One mixed category will drive women out of sport.

I'm not sure what's confusing about the physiological difference male and female puberty bring about?

All the hormones in the world won't undo male puberty and the muscle mass growth/skeletal changes/cardiovascular advantages it confers. The same as giving trans men testosterone won't give them the muscle mass etc. of non-trans men.

Is this a post just looking to be provocative??

Because twaw and women compete in women's sport!

That they will usually win because...testosterone/male puberty, completely beside the point.