JK Rowling article

Look on the bright side, it could have been salad cream.

I went to a barbecue once many years ago. The coleslaw and the potato salad were both made with salad cream. I've still not got over the experience.

I mean.....
"Reddit, Aimee Challenor and a disturbing insight into the trans debate | The Spectator" www.spectator.co.uk/article/reddit-aimee-challenor-and-a-disturbing-insight-into-the-trans-debate/amp

I'm not at all concerned that I appear to have allied myself with people who can actually make reasoned, evidenced arguments, think critically and seem to manage to see females as equally human. And think safeguarding matters. And that inclusion means everyone and not just some male people. And that providing something in a relationship to others that is not reciprocated and which the provider is not seen as worthy of or entitled to themselves is an abusive dynamic for which the phrase 'LTB' was invented. And that female people having boundaries is a good thing. And that any movement worthy of success operates transparently and ethically and without harming the rights, freedoms, access and equality of others. And that anyone who wants to control and punish your speech and freedom of belief and enforce participation against your will is not someone to be giving your time and energy to.

I'm up all of for that. I really am.

I am deeply concerned that I appear to have allied myself with people who put mayonnaise in cucumber sandwiches.

Is it misogynistic to send women rape threats?

Is it homophobic to tell lesbians they're not allowed to reject a partner with a penis?

I'm sure not every gender ideologue thinks it's ok to do those things, but there is a worrying overlap.

Oh damn. I cut and pasted a mess there.

Where a prominent transitioned male barrister/activist used the word 'vile' to describe the amendment and accused the Baroness of 'prejudice'.

it's 'vile' and 'prejudiced' to want single sex hospital wards (where women have also been assaulted) because male people matter and those female people don't!

Just to add context here for those reading along, this refers to this thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4506091-Emma-Nicholson-in-the-Times

Where a prominent transitioned male barrister/activist where they called a Baroness wanted to seek stronger protections for female single sex wards used the word 'vile' to describe the amendment and accused the Baroness of 'prejudice'.

A Baroness is doing 'vile' stuff because it is 'prejudiced' to exclude males.

I think that pretty much qualifies as misogyny right there.

Uhm.... Stonewall (which I supported as an L person in section 28 days) now has its leader saying on radio that women wanting to be homosexual and exclude all male people from their body are the same as fattists and racists.... they are homophobia on crack.

Misogyny.... if you want to see misogyny of the most extreme kind go chat to those determined that it's fine for women to be raped in prison and it's 'vile' and 'prejudiced' to want single sex hospital wards (where women have also been assaulted) because male people matter and those female people don't! And lived experience, voices, privacy, dignity, safety? That's for male born people, not females (but sex doesn't matter. If male people currently don't want it to matter. Cos its no skin off their nose.)

Roll back abortion rights? You're on the wrong side of the Atlantic chum, this is the UK. This is just mad hyperbole, with the aim of fling enough wild accusations around and someone might just be naiive enough to believe a couple.

It's wall to wall rubbish. Unevidenced. As always. High on hyperbole and drama. And absolutely oblivious to the open, screaming irony of it all. There's religious extremism everywhere, but it's coming from the lobby women here are protesting against because they would quite like to have rights too. Not being fans of male supremacy.

I demand my Regan funded nun wife, she has not appeared yet.

roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia

Come on, Artichoke, you know we've all been secretly plotting to roll out the UK wing of the Westboro Baptist Church all along, shortly before invading Poland. Admit it!

Yeah, none of those are true and all are massive, mahoosive projections.

Have another bash.

White bread….obvs

But now I would like a cucumber sandwich…with mayo

I see Dolores Umbridge has arrived on the thread. Vitriol and false allegations served with a plate of cucumber sandwiches and an insincere tinkly laugh.

Another one of JKR's perfect poisonous characters - currently serving a life sentence I recall.

It's a great article.

It's something I've said before: transactivists inc ElaineFuchs need to address the forest in their own eye before complaining about the splinter in mine. Like all other posters, I'm not going to be guilted out of maintaining my rights.

This is no doubt the path that the GC movement will go down if you leave space for anti-women fascists (for example Matt Walsh).

You keep leaving the word feminist off the end of gender critical.

I had to Google Matt Walsh but having done so I can't understand why anyone would think he's critical of rigid gender roles.

I don't think that every GC believes in this things of course, but there is a worrying overlap.

I think I've seen one GC feminist on here who supports abortion. It would be a very strange feminist who supported misogyny.

You seem to be mixing up GC feminists with everyone who doesn't accept TWAW (which is most of the population).

Well Samphire, thank you. But, I think we know that I am not really responding to 'Elaine' at all. I am merely using their post to show the weaknesses in what 'Elaine' thought were super-gotcha arguments but are so hackneyed now that it is second nature to respond with the many examples littered here that show the weaknesses up.

As with many of us, we post for those reading along.

Ah, helleofabore how you maintain the patience to respond so fully I shall never know.

I applaud and thank you for it.

There are many repeated arguments "gay/trans people are unsafe to be around children", "lesbians/trans women aren't safe in women's toilets", "gay contagion, ROGD", it's "unnatural". At it's heart, it's a mix of wanting to uphold the patriarchy and using hate against these minorities as a wedge issue to further political goals

"gay/trans people are unsafe to be around children"

There are absolutely no evidence or studies that show transitioned males to be any less of a safety risk around any other male. Is there any that has separated out gay men? I don't know. In any case, males in general commit 98%+ of all sex crimes. The fact is that ALL males need to be treated as a risk for children for safeguarding purposes and go through the same processes to attempt to lower that risk. ALL males. No special males.

Your assertion lacks any credibility and falls back on forced teaming gay men with transitioned males when there is no proof that either should be treated any differently for safeguarding.

Your assertion is hyperbolic.

"lesbians/trans women aren't safe in women's toilets"

Here you force team lesbians with transitioned males. This is actually homophobic. Because lesbians are females are ARE treated slightly differently under safeguarding protocols. Because FEMALES, and ALL females, are known to commit sex crimes at a significantly lower rate than males. ie if males commit 98%+, females commit 2% or less of sex crimes in the UK and in many other countries around the world.

Well done though in saying lesbians are just the same as transitioned males in that statement.

"gay contagion, ROGD"

I linked the Cass interim report before. I suggest you read it.

Here are some highlights

5.9. As previously indicated, the epidemiology of gender dysphoria is changing, with an increase in the numbers of birth-registered females presenting in early teens. In addition, the majority of children and young people presenting to GIDS have other complex mental health issues and/or neurodiversity. There is also an over-representation of looked after children.

5.10. There are several implications arising from the change in epidemiology:
● Firstly, the speed of change in the numbers presenting means that services have not kept pace with demand.
● Secondly, the cohort that the original Dutch Approach was based on is different from the current more complex NHS cohort, and also from the current case-mix internationally, and therefore it is difficult to extrapolate from older literature to this current group.
● Thirdly, different subgroups may have quite different needs and outcomes, and these must be built into any service design, so that it works for all children and young people.

5.11. At present we have the least information for the largest group of patients – birth-registered females first presenting in early teen years. Since the rapid increase in this group began around 2015, they will not reach late 20s for another 5+ years, which would be the best time to assess longer-term wellbeing.

page 58.

In the list of things they will look at next:

The important role of schools and the challenges they face in responding appropriately to gender-questioning children and young people.

The complex interaction between sexuality and gender identity, and societal responses to both; for example, we have heard from young lesbians who felt pressured to identify as transgender male, and conversely transgender males who felt pressured to come out as gay rather than transgender. We have also heard from adults who identified as transgender through childhood, and then reverted to their birth-registered gender in teen years.

Basically, Dr Cass is just one of the now many clinicians who recognise that there is something different about the current cohort of young transitioners who are in the majority, female. Since, you Elaine, have fuck all to contribute as to why this phenomenon is occurring, maybe stop saying that something is not happening, when you have nothing, absolutely nothing' to show that it is not happening.

So, basically, you have no credibility and are using children and teenagers to what, call out people who are actually their parents or other concerned people who have been following very closely.

Yeah? Good job.

"unnatural"

Really? Who says this? Show us who makes this claim?

Your 'repeated arguments'? Polarising overgeneralisations are highly represented here. And a few seem based on trying to portray concerns as being baseless and those making them, ignorant. When in fact those cognitive distortions being fed by your own prejudices show just who is being ignorant here.

read her books to your kids

I would never defend vaush and his misogyny, his misogynistic attacks are reprehensible and an attack on all women. The same goes for any abuser, I would never give them a platform or promote their work, even if they have symphetic views towards trans liberation. That's the difference.

Perhaps the reason there is a lack of 'unproblematic' yet quotable proponents of taking a cautious stance on gender ideology is that anyone who raises even the mildest type of questions around it is immediately denounced, deplatformed and declared to be a loathsome T*RF.

JKR is one of the few progressives who is sufficiently financially sandbagged to be able to express gender-critical views and she has come to be so reviled because of this singular issue that these days in progressive circles even admitting you read your books to your kids is enough to get some people looking at you with raised eyebrows.

I know lots of progressive women who are uncomfortable about uncritical acceptance of gender ideology but they would never say so openly because they like their jobs.

You can't on one hand say "So many people associated with gender-criticism are problematic, shouldn't that tell you something" and then on the other hand turn a blind eye when someone otherwise unproblematic is absolutely dragged simply because they are gender-critical.

Eric Joyce, former Labour MP. Said single-sex toilets were an outdated concept. (See image).

Since then, Eric has left politics, because...

Eric Joyce, MP for Falkirk in Scotland between 2000 and 2012, had on a device a 51-second film depicting what appeared to be seven different children, aged between 12 months old and seven years old.

(Continues)

Judge Mr Justice Edis, sentencing the former shadow minister on Friday, said: “You have pleaded guilty to an offence which involves the possession of a category A film of a little less than a minute’s duration.

“That film showed the penetrative sexual abuse of very young children.

“That these acts of abuse happened is because there are people like you who want to watch these films.

“If there was no market, those children wouldn’t be subjected to these very serious offences.”

(Continues)
[The barrister for the prosecution] said Joyce used software which hid internet activity and claimed in his first police interview that “he had never seen child abuse material”. [bold mine]

However...

Mr Procter said there was evidence of searches “for material for five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10-year-old girls”. [bold mine]

“There’s reference to titles which the Crown suggest are indicative of category A movies – ‘two men rape girl’,” he said.

“There’s certainly browser activity which suggests he’s been searching for that material but we have no other information as to whether in fact he viewed that material.

“It seems highly likely.”

Eric Joyce still has an active twitter account, which he has used numerous times since he was sentenced for downloading videos of small children being subjected to penetrative sexual abuse.

And the current leader of the Scottish Labour Party is still following Eric Joyce on twitter. Not the only one, either.

Many of the men pushing self id, especially for the entry of self identified ‘women’ into female only spaces are later found to have convictions for sex abuse. It’s hardly surprising because what decent man campaigns for males, of any identity, to have access to spaces where women undress.

And those pushing for the ‘inclusiveness’ of male bodies in female sports are outing themselves as men who do not see women as full human beings. Because the gross unfairness of Lia Thomas would never be tolerated in any male sport.

And the interesting thing is that while pushing for male sex people to be included as women if they ‘identify’ that way, these males are excluding them from manhood. It’s as though a GNC man is such an affront to masculinity that it can only be dealt with by denying he is a brother at all.