Rights Conflict - simple explanation?

Rapists in female prisons.

Men competing as women in sport.

Smear test being done by a man and the woman was called a bigot for complaining.

The NHS instruct their staff to say there are no men here, in female wards when there clearly are.

Leading politicians saying that a parliament made up of 50% men and 50% men who say they're woman would be acceptable in terms of equality.

There are loads of conflicts, but these are the most obvious.

Does a man who says he feels like a woman have the right to change with teenage girls, or do they have the right to change without male bodies?

Does a man who says he feels like a woman get the right to play in womens teams, or do women get the right to fair competition?

Do male prisoners who say they are women have the right to being housed in womens prisons, or do women prisoners get the right to safety?

Does a male girlguider (or similiar) who says he is a woman get to sleep overnight with children, or do those children have the right to safeguarding measures?

Does a straight man who says he is a woman get the right to call himself a lesbian?

(P.s all men in these scenariois have penises.)

I also think it helps to point out that the rights conflicts arise in situations where the physical body matters - sports and changing rooms and prison accomodation etc.

Should people be categorised into changing rooms by the shape of their physical body or by their feelings? And what happens when different groups want different types of organisation? Here, the point that most trans women have an intact male body becomes very relevant.

The example I've used before is that as a woman I want to see a female doctor/or female nurse for a smear. I have the right to make that request. If the person who turns up is male but says they identify as a woman a conflict occurs. So who's rights take precedence? Mine to be treated by a female or a man's to be treated as if he is female? A further conflict occurs if my voicing by discomfort or objection I am accused of a hate crime.

Would it be OK to put a trans man in a men's prison?

Yes that's a good one. And you can explain that generally it doesn't happen, and that people they would think of as trans men aren't bringing cases asking for it, unlike MTF trans people, and just let that sit.

When I explained it to my DH the bit that "got him" was about mixed martial arts fights.

www.sportskeeda.com/amp/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight

Until then he didn't get it.

Male who identifies as a man walks into a female changing room. Women are allowed to feel uncomfortable, anxious, unsafe and are allowed to challenge the male.

Male who identifies as a woman walks into a female changing room. Women are not allowed to feel uncomfortable, anxious, unsafe and are not allowed to challenge male. In fact to feel any of these things would make these Women bigots. If male gets his penis out Women should simply avert their eyes.

So basically what Women are and are not allowed to feel and what they are allowed to do in a female space, is dictated entirely by the feelings of the male in that female space. The male controls everything in the situation.

Smells pretty strongly of misogyny to me.

I think the Lia Thomas example is the best example of a rights conflict

At what objective point does a 'male who identifies as a woman' actually become a woman?

What is a transwoman?

There are 3 swimming ponds.

One for males.

One for females.

One mixed sex.

The male one and the mixed sex one were not enough for the males who identify as women, so they got the rules changed and decided the female one was for them.

When women on the other hand decided they identified as men and went into the male pond, they called the police. Even though women are not actually a threat to men

Males want it all but absolutely have to keep women out of their spaces, supported by the law.

Male prisoners who self identify as female are housed in the womens estate . Some of them are sex offenders. Many identify as male again when they are released.

This is a risk to women in prison, who are some of the most vulnerable women in society.

I think Wi Spa is the best example of this.

Sex offender exposes semi erect penis to women and a child - and when they reported, they were not believed, they were victimised.

It sounds like she's incredibly ignorant though.

Maybe Hadley Freemans recent article might be something you could send

I think the issue with a lot of people's understanding is that they still think 'trans' means someone who has wanted to be the opposite sex all their life, makes themselves look like the opposite sex and, re trans women, has adopted feminine mannerisms that don't immediately scream that they should be 'treated' as a man (where it's appropriate to treat people differently according to their sex).

I'd gently ask questions as to what they think a 'trans' person is (trans man and trans woman) and if they haven't yet got the memo that it's a feeling inside that is communicated only by a declaration then they might see the issue - so remember that they can't call anyone 'he' or 'she', 'man' or 'woman' until they have let you know what gender they are (or no gender).

Tara Hudson bragging about their penis was what changed my mind.

Some people don't really have much idea what a conflict of rights might actually mean - they really believe that there is no such thing. It can help to give some other examples. You could talk for example about something like affirmative action, or even something like noise, or the right to gather, and how it has to be weighed against the right of others to have a peaceful home or be able to use public spaces.

The next question is - why do we have certain places that are divided by sex, like prisons or change areas or rape crises centers. In these cases the view has been that the particular needs of each sex, to safety, or dignity, or need for services, means it is ok to divide them this way.

The question then becomes, if we say it is no longer ever ok to divide by sex, how then do we serve the needs of those people we were serving before? Are we saying that no women now need women only rape crises intervention, or women in prison no longer need or want to be separate from male bodied people? What has changed?

Usually asking questions is a better way forward, in my experiences, with people who don't know much.

20% of male offenders in prison are there for sex crimes. For TW it's 50%. And many of them insist it's their right to be in female prisons.

Saw this one in the Times yday which I quite liked: "You are, in effect, saying that it's right that my friend's daughter, a devout Muslim, can no longer train at her gym because a trans-identifying male person wished to attend during women-only hour? The young woman in question has lost 100% of her gym provision in order that a male person can select their preference from all the times. That is fair to you?"

.... but otherwise, to be fair, its probably best to leave it right now.

There is so much going on at the moment that soon it will be more mainstream and issues will be hitting the press soon, I reckon.

And if not, we'll, everything is OK with trans women until the day it's not OK. For some people it will take a personal experience to hit home....

A pal's light bulb moment came when I talked about not trans women, but trans men.

Would it be OK to put a trans man in a men's prison?

What about at skool, letting a 15 Yr old trans boy play rugby with the boys and then get changed with them afterwards, would there be a problem with that?

And check the break it down for me thread.

Making toilets mixed sex excludes Muslim women. How is that inclusive?