Starmer on what a woman is, and GRA reform

Starmer’s view on this was a big topic of discussion at the party conference last year. Lots of activists muttering in corners about how they were GC but afraid of saying so openly in branch or constituency meetings because there was always one TWAW person who would try to get them expelled if they did.

Anyway, the consensus seemed to be (and it’s a small world where a lot of people are pretty well-informed about what’s going on) that the real problem is that Starmer has no strong opinion of his own on this. He therefore looks to his advisors to tell him what line to adopt, and they do not speak with one voice (some older women who know the score, and some TRAs, mostly gay males in their 30s).

I don’t think that’s changed. Hence we get a smorgasbord of “adult human female” and “TWAW”, combined with what I felt was a pretty underpowered response. Someone who cares passionately on either side would have more to say about it than this and more appreciation of what arguments the other side might raise. I sense that he wants to shut down the discussion, not just because it’s difficult, but because he is not interested, doesn’t think it’s a big deal and consequently hasn’t thought about it much.

Anyway just my two pen’oth. I joined in the hope that he was GC but not willing to rock the boat until the time was right. I increasingly doubt that, and if I’m right that he thinks it’s a fringe issue, that’s a piss poor approach. Can’t see I’ll last another year as a member TBH.

It's also not helpful for young gender confused people who are being sold the lie.

Wow. A question all about women and an answer all about men. Who could’ve guessed?

“A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women”
If he’d said this in his first year as a law student, he would rightly have been dragged to the front of the seminar room and mercilessly mocked by his tutor. It’s garbage. It would be garbage in a philosophy or debate society, let alone in a legal context.

And I don't know who to vote for any more.

Why can't he say;
Biological women are women
Transwomen are transwomen
Biological men are men
Transmen are transmen
There are some people who have differences of sexual development.;these need to be considered on a case by case basis.
Everyone is worthy of respect and safe spaces.
I would be happy with that.

There has been and will also be corruption in governments, the rich getting richer and politicians lying. Its happened for decades and will go on to happen for decades to come so I won't always priortise that as a reason not to vote for a party. What I won't accept is this absolute bs that is happening where we no longer have safe spaces etc. No way will I vote for a party that denies this basic right, rights that women fought so hard for. After all the leaders of these parties are men! Surprise suprise.

I want a world where women are women and recgonised as such over and above anything else.

I can’t vote for Labour anymore.

Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time

It doesn't further the interests of women and girls????

Listen women! You've been banging on for some time about this now so isn't it about time that you shut the fuck up about your rights?!

I can only assume he doesn't want to actually win an election. I can see why - Covid still hanging around, fall out from Brexit, a war being waged by Russia and an energy crisis.

This is a nice easy shortcut to ensure all that remains someone else's problem whilst you just heckle from the sidelines.

I wonder what will happen down the line if they ever get another Blair like leader who is serious about winning?

I will not come back to Labour at the next election. I stopped voting Labour when Corbyn was in charge and I planned to start again with Starmer. I've voted Labour since 1987.
I could forgive the "embrace Brexit " shit. But I can't forgive this.

Heard two people talking about this this week - Keir Starmer and Kemi Badenoch. Going to have to vote Tory. I'm a natural Labour voter on economic grounds but this is too important to just spoil my ballot. I've written to Keir this morning to tell him this and I sent a copy to Kemi.

And that's what hell not be gettin gmy vote.

Neither will the Tories though.

Nor the greens or Libdems.

I just won't bother, I can't support any of them.

Keir is a man.

He is never going to get it.

No, Keir. You do not get to tell us what constitutes being a women. Males who identify as women are not a subset of our sex class. How dare you, a privileged male, think you can tell us who and what is included under the term that defines half of the world. Woman is not yours to give away. It belongs to Women: adult human females.

Men, women and children are being slaughtered in Ukraine, the world is under the worst threat to humanity for the past 40 years and yet this is what you think the voters will love. None so blind as those that refuse to see.

I will never vote for Labour again.

Oh and there are loads of Labourites on his feed that are on the side of Russia and how dare he support Ukraine.

They are just mad.

Actually, if silly sausage Keir thinks transwomen are actually women (of course he's ignoring transmen, we all know why) - does that mean he'll get rid of the EA2010 protected characteristic of gender reassignment because it will be totally redundant? That's ... bold!

I’ve just had the conservatives canvassing (local elections coming up). Nice man, listened, answered my questions, told me exactly what was happening with some local problem issues we’ve been having, asked what I wanted and what my main worries were. So fine - he knows what sex is and the importance of women only spaces etc.

I am just waiting for Labour or Lib Dems to show their faces at my door. Hell we even have a green. Hold help them.

He's lost the plot and flushed any credibility he might have had down the toilet, his choice. I can only snigger now when he's mentioned. Funny: Boris Johnson and the UK government suddenly somehow seem to have a great reputation on the international stage and poor silly little Keir pipes up that he thinks men are women. Do Labour shills still keep trying to say he's clever? So much for the recent activists' wacky attempt to position him as the next prime minister or whatever their instructions were.

'It's baffling to me how he can support safe spaces for women but his definition of woman includes some men.'

Because to him, they're not men. He has no objective definitions in this discussion. Not of men or women, not of male or female. He is a slave to bad laws and has lost the capacity to make a reasonable judgment about whether those laws have a firm basis in fact.

It's baffling to me how hecan support safe spaces for women but his definition of woman includes some men. How can he not see that's an issue?
I once heard him described as a 'brilliant man ' by someone who knows him. He's not being very 'brilliant' with that flaw in his logic IMO.

Thank goodness for Rosie Duffield and her like.

Anyway, supporting safe spaces for women is meaningless if men can enter those safe spaces at will.

Labour are not going to turn away from this any time soon.

Livelifeinthebuslane
But he also said that he believes in safe spaces for women and the Equality Act is right. So transwomen are women ... except when they're not.

That's not quite what he said is it?

Scottish government has proposed changes { reformed as in change to a better system of self identify to the legal class woman } that would not require a medical diagnosis.

The law defines woman as child or adult who is female and man as child or adult who is male.

So first he has subtlety removed children from the discussions that the reader may have.

He also desexed trans women from man (male) to trans child or trans adult who is female.

The reader needs to adjust the meaning of { woman } to his definition to read what he is quoted as saying { woman is a female adult, and in addition to that some males trans women are women }

Asked about the Scottish government’s plans, Starmer replied:
"A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom."
"The Gender Recognition Act needs to be reformed { as in change to a better system of self identify to the legal class woman } . And I believe in safe spaces for women { female and some males, child or adult } — I’m very clear about those too. I think the 2004 act needs to be reformed { to self ID?? }, I think the 2010 act, the Equality Act, which does provide for safe spaces for women { female and some males, child or adult } is right. And therefore I’m very straightforward about this.”

Politics is word craft and ability to spin the message.

What is wrong with these people? What?