The Cass Review- Interim Report

Agree completely Domesticated we should, this is a scandal, rowing back on the rhetoric will require lots of support for the young people who have been harmed and misled. The NHS should not be politicised in its caring practice.
The private doctors shouldn’t be so unscrutinised.
We know a vast amount of pressure will be on the NHS to accommodate all the affirmation stuff, but professional leadership should have been robust enough to refuse it.

the child wasn't just interacting with peers around the same age but mostly middle-aged adults. Having extensive, private conversations with people the parents would never, ever, have been quite so insouciant about in the real world .....instructed not to leave the room and interact with the family in the same house.

Safeguarding 101. Right there.

Can anyone help me understand what Jo Maugham means by this tweet? He says: "if you can't shake the feeling in your bones that being trans is an illness, your instinct is always going to be to 'cure it'. So much of England still thinks of being trans as a pathology."

Just...what? I don't think that being trans is an illness, and consequently I don't think children should have any medical interventions to treat it. They shouldn't be on puberty blockers or cross sex hormones. Kids should be left just the way they are. If it isn't an illness, then why do they need to take these harmful drugs and have surgery? Being trans isn't a pathology and that is precisely why children shouldn't be subjected to these treatments.

But earlier, Maugham goes on about how children NEED to go on puberty blockers so they don't grow up in the 'wrong body' which would ruin their chances of 'passing' as their desired gender later in life. How does this not contradict what he just said?

I guess what I'm asking is how can trans supporters hold these two premises at the same time?

1. being trans is a medical emergency. Children will commit suicide and lead painful lives unless they can get urgent care to block the wrong puberty and go on cross sex hormones.
2. being trans is not an illness. it is not a pathology to cure.

These seem inherently contradictory.

I think we need to call for an inquiry into exactly what the fuck has happened here.

to all families affected by this.

I am horribly distressed by what this has meant for the whole family and the relationships within it.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus me too.

My friends have no idea what's coming. They are fully confident they have made the right decision - these are thoughtful, kind, loving parents and they put their faith the gender clinic. Of course they did, I wouldn't question an oncologist if I had cancer, I'd trust that person had my best interests at heart and was using their expertise and science to improve my lot. Why would these kind, engaged, loving (and worried sick because the school and Mermaids told them their kid was a suicide risk) doubt the recommendations of a doctor in a specialist clinic, whom they believed to be at the top of their game?

I'll never forgive that doctor. I'll never forgive the inadequate politicians and medics and journalists and teachers who turned a blind eye to this. They knew, they bloody KNEW that you can't change sex, and they did not speak up.

I have a list of people I'd be happy to see go to jail because their cowardice or incompetence has caused enormous harm to my society and a young person that I love very much.

You're quite right. JFC.

I note that it's got up his nose that Hilary Cass said this is everyone's business. And he's indulging in a spot of mansplaining to claim that she didn't mean everyone, at all.

Yes, I noted that. And I'd like to correct him - child safeguarding IS everyone's business, as most people understand quite well without getting all defensive about it.

But, the child spent literally hours every night with the YT family and other social media and then was completely drawn into this for a mindboggling amount of time and instructed not to leave the room and interact with the family in the same house.

I believe (not an expert) that there's a point at which bone growth stops around or before that age so it wouldn't have any impact on height.

Child was coached in how to ask for intervention to be a male-presenting NB or [insert mental health negotiating tactic].

The Cass report says:

"We have heard that some young people learn through peers and social media what they should and should not say to therapy staff in order to access hormone treatment; for example, that they are advised not to admit to previous abuse or trauma, or uncertainty about their sexual orientation."

This is so sad.

My kid's pal had a double mastectomy last year. I don't believe that young person is trans, I believe they are gay and autistic. I've known that young person their whole life, and I love them, they are woven in the fabric of my life. And I worry what this news will do that young person, their parents, and all the children that we ALLOWED to be told lies when we believed those we thought knew best.

Similarly for friend's NB child. This is a child who welcomed the chance to go to a secondary school where they would know no-one because there had never been a history of friendships or an easy comprehension of social transactions. There are so many signs from early childhood that this was a child who might benefit from a knowledgeable assessment of this.

As the child started to develop a sexed body there was recourse to the warm embrace of a YT family that replaced the family in the actual space who supported and loved them. Child was coached in how to ask for intervention to be a male-presenting NB or [insert mental health negotiating tactic]. Full family supported social transition and was on the progression to blockers, hormones and more except it was disrupted by lockdown.

I won't give any more details but I am horribly distressed by what this has meant for the whole family and the relationships within it.

Also came across a tweet about an 18 year old detransitioned boy (previously a trans ‘girl’) who was on puberty blockers and is now 5ft 2 with a non functioning micro penis and feels he ‘has no place in the world’, it’s fucking heartbreaking... Where is the evidence puberty resumes as normal once blockers are stopped?

Has restarting the adolescent's correct puberty by administering the correct hormones for his or her body ever been trialled?

(Given that no 'gender-affirming' treatment has ever been properly trialled, perhaps that should say tested.)

Sorry I’m being lazy and not feeling well, what is ‘this’ that you cannot wait to be banned on schools? Thank you in advance

Speaking from my own undertstanding that would be the unilateral transing of very young children by encouraging any young child who is having a perfectly normal "I wanna be a cat" day, encouraging the change of name, social transing, not telling parents, reporting parents who express concern with these actions to SS and on and on and on.

As you know, having been on many threads were such actions have been discussed.

And yes to never, ever hearing of male breasts.

It's just as ridiculous as a female penis, but men simply wouldn't accept it, would they. You cant sully the idea of manhood by claiming bosoms are all part of it.

Can't have people who have not been preapproved give him benefit of their knowledge, can we.

Vivarium
"Thank goodness for Justine and Mumsnet. I often wonder how many people who are now GC started off on here.

Justine, thank you. Sincerely, I've seen the abuse and attacks and unpleasantness that has been directed at you. Creating this board, and protecting this board, made a place where women could speak and collaborate and galvanise - and that will save lives.

Thank you."

Thirded!

Prompted by this interim report, I have finally subscribed to Mumsnet Premium in recognition of the role this forum has had in moving the agenda forward and the difficulties they have/continue to face in holding a space for discussion.

I am one of the many who have been educated here and over the past 4 years have personally moved from a place of complete ignorance to being as active as I can in challenging gender ideology.

I also wrote to MN yesterday letting them know why I had subscribed. The discussion rules for this board may not be perfect but it remains one of the most accessible places where the issues can be aired. Here they are explored and discussed in astonishing detail by incredibly well informed and articulate women. We can talk and learn and get involved and newbies can discover.

THANK YOU again

I'm guessing they wouldn't want us to think about that . . .

So not only is there inadequate information and data and evidence for treating girls, there likelywon'tbe for another few years. So this generation are genuinely an experiment. I find that chilling

No it is not an experiment. An experimental treatment would have clear procedures and data collection in order to answer a question. This isn't happening here. There is a complete disinterest in the long term outcome for these children. It is quite simply a medical scandal.

Hear hear, viv. Thank you Justine and all the vipers

@DomesticatedZombie it is.

So much for the "toxic vipers" trope.

I should feel happy to see this evidence which backs up my opinion. I should feel relieved.

But, I am tearful. I'm sad. My kid's pal had a double mastectomy last year. I don't believe that young person is trans, I believe they are gay and autistic. I've known that young person their whole life, and I love them, they are woven in the fabric of my life. And I worry what this news will do that young person, their parents, and all the children that we ALLOWED to be told lies when we believed those we thought knew best.

The consequences of affirmation are unknown.

I expect we will see suicides in trans people after all. And I am tearful about it because it is so sad. I want trans people to be happy and healthy - that's not bigotry.

Thank goodness Dr Cass' report has happened. Thank goodness for Baroness Nicolson, Joanna Cherry, JK Rowling, Maya Forstater, Marion Calder, Susan Smith, and all the HCPs, civil servants, police, judges, social workers, teachers, councillors and counsellors who have been brave enough to say "this is not right".

Thank goodness for Justine and Mumsnet. I often wonder how many people who are now GC started off on here.

Justine, thank you. Sincerely, I've seen the abuse and attacks and unpleasantness that has been directed at you. Creating this board, and protecting this board, made a place where women could speak and collaborate and galvanise - and that will save lives.

Thank you.

EXACTLY! @DomesticatedZombie

At what stage will government etc realise that they are not dealing with rational people who listen to expert opinion/evidence and just cut them out of the process?

We don’t have to appease these people - they don’t have rights to force their ideology onto children - when will this be stopped and children finally, properly be protected?

I’m just baffled by how entrenched this all still feels... but is that just shouty TRA voices on Twitter and nowhere else?

It seems to me this report is retty much vindication of everything feminists and parents have been trying to say for the past few years.

They are so obsessed with aesthetics aren't they?

It was good to see that GIDS (and ex GIDs) clinicians who have contributed to the Cass Review don't share that obsession when considering treatment options.

Respondents were asked how they would describe the main purpose of puberty blockers when discussing treatment options with a child/young person

file:///Users/imacbill/Downloads/Gender-specialists-questionnaire-report_FINAL-1.pdf