The Cass Review- Interim Report

Yes, WeBuilt. Overwhelming sadness for the people whose lives have been harmed by this dreadful, ill-evidenced nonsense. And relief, in that I can see a possible way forward, that many more children may receive better care, may avoid being told they are 'in the wrong body' and all the reckless stuff that entails. And still fury, a huge cold fury, at the people who have not only sold all this crap to vulnerable children and families but have vilified, attacked, and threatened the women who have tried to raise questions.

I’d really like to see claims about suicide ideation formally addressed.

I'm finding it quite hard to unpick all the feelings I have after reading this. (I don't want this post to sound me me me but I imagine lots of you feel the same way?). My first reaction was a sense of relief, but also vindication, which I know makes me sound awful but hopefully I will explain it properly, although I'm a bit inarticulate today. Second to this though is an awful amount of anger, and sadness.

Like PP, I personally know young people directly affected, and indeed harmed by this ideology, physically as well as mentally. I'm furious that they have gone through this. I'm also furious that we (GC feminists, especially fabulous MNers) have been trying to say all this for so long, but have been ignored, shouted down, silenced and abused.

I feel a lot of anger that we were subjected to all this now that it's finally finally starting to be recognised that this ideology is harmful - all the way along we were the ones with DCs best interests at the forefront of our minds, when we have been presented as just the opposite - as though we were the ones wanting to harm DC. (I'm feeling furious just typing that). The amount of abuse women have received, all the pressure we have been under, women losing jobs and being silenced and ostracised.

There's also a sense of disbelief that it has taken this long for sanity to finally finally start (albeit very slowly) to prevail. That an ideology so fucking ridiculous (and SG's ludicrous comments listed up thread demonstrate this so well) has been allowed to become mainstream and used to brainwash and harm children.

I also feel ashamed that I feel an awful childish sense of told you so reading the report - it makes it sound as though I am triumphant that we are "vindicated". It's not like that, my main feelings are just relief, anger and sadness. It just feels like we have had to fight so many battles (not just things like being called a terfy child killing cunt on social media, but the horrendous RL battles of women who have been arrested, had to go through court, lost their jobs etc etc). I have always believed this ideology would eventually be recognised for what it was (and like PP said, there should be enquiries and it should all be brought very clearly into the sunlight) but fuck me, it's taken such a long time, at such a cost, and we aren't even there yet.

I think the Mermaids frantic back pedalling shows the direction of travel though. What a shame we have had to fight so hard for people to start to realise that removing the genitals of 16 yr olds is abuse not affirmation.

Yes, that's a clear but disturbing article, Clymene.

'Social transition' at a young age is surely more of a removal or lessening of external pressures than anything else?

A child is then 'allowed' to play with whatever toys, wear whatever clothes. And I wonder if this plays out differently between the sexes, too - masculinity tends to be more heavily policed than femininity. I suppose that's standard homophobia.

MrsOvertinsWindow posted a link to this article on another thread and it's brilliant. It's about the impact of social transition on young children

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

"Oh good God yes,” she says. “I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual."
If I ever said such a thing about my child, I think that should raise serious questions about my suitability for... well, most things, let alone being in charge of Stonewall

Certain people at mermaids needed to validate their own course of action. Mermaids offered them that option.

The whole thing has always been based on rigid sexist stereotypes with a dollop of homophobia.

Even the diagnostic criteria.

Then you read Trans by Helen Joyce and understand more of the history.

And realise it's basic an invented condition. By social stereotypical and homophobia pressures and then by the medical profession.

There's a thread discussing JT and her assertions around MH; I like some of her stuff and disagree with others, and even think some is plain dangerous. However, this is one "illness/diagnosis/ condition" that has been invented and pathologised.

'I would imagine that JG was very ill as a teenager and likely self harming. I can't imagine any other reason for SG to be so driven.'

Which, sorry to say, was (in my opinion) made more likely by the decisions taken by SG when JG was younger.

I would imagine that JG was very ill as a teenager and likely self harming. I can't imagine any other reason for SG to be so driven. And far too many of us have had self harming teenagers and are left with zero support.

Susie Green comes across as having essentialist views about what boys and girls should be like. A boy who plays with dolls - to her - must be either female inside or gay. Which is obviously an essentialist way to think about sex. It's very silly, but sadly it's also gone on to do harm.

There's context to Susie not wanting Jackie to be a gay boy.

But it's incredibly confused.

Oh good God yes,” she says. “I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual.

Because I feared for her future. I wasn’t horrified by the prospect of her being a girl – although I did find it extremely difficult to come to terms with - I just knew how hard things life be for her.

“When she was such a girly boy from such an early age I even started hoping she might grow out of it and it might turn out that I had a gay son. I think I must have been one of the few parents who was actually praying I had a gay son. But you could see from about the age of three it wasn’t just the toys she played with it was as much as the way she played with them.

It's not clear to me whether she feared for Jackie's future is a gay boy, or a straight girl.

It just comes across as horribly confused to me. All of it.

I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual

Heterosexuality meaning what in this context exactly?

Because this is one of the founders of there's no such thing as sex, everyone's what they say they are today, straight males are lesbians, it's homophobic to expect the word homosexual to have a meaning, don't you police my labels....

As per bloody usual, right underneath all the word salad is very fixed sex based thinking that's mired so deep in sexist stereotypes its shocking.

*“I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual"

Is that a hate crime?

Some might query whether Susie, who was always a very open-minded mother, did enough to discourage Jack from playing with girls’ toys and wearing feminine clothes – both signs displayed from the age of three. Did she really try to intervene enough?

I mean, this is the writer of the article fully agreeing.

It's horrendous. Claiming someone is open-minded at the same time as asking whether or not they did enough to stop the child playing with certain toys that they don't deem suitable for his sex.

The fact that these are 'girls toys' is important, too.

I don't think you'd get the the same distain in quite the same way if a girl wanted to play football or climb trees. That is seen as perhaps not very feminine, but understandable, maybe even aspirational.

Whereas a boy playing with 'girls toys' is much more socially unacceptable. For God sake, don't try and inhabit the trappings of the inferior class.

So very much of this agenda is about meeting the needs of noisy, needy adults by doing stuff to women and children.

So in answer to your question, yes, thank you, I did find it, but I don't know how!!

We need a serious look at mental health provision - for all ages. Its staggering how poor current service is. Especially for children and yp.

'I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual.

She didn’t really have many dolls, but what cuddly toys she had she would nurture and treat like babies, not at all like a boy.'

Christ.

Thank you!

Did you find it?

It took me a while ...

If Susie Green is now claiming that this treatment should be exploratory, maybe it's less about covering her arse, and more about enlightenment?

She can't possibly re-read what she said 10 years ago and still agree with it, surely.

The article is from 2011.

Most people can see how this is all about stereotypes, despite the narrative changing. Once the pushback began against the sexism of using stereotypes to 'determine your sex', TRAs changed the narrative to claim it was nothing to do with stereotypes, but everything to do with an innate essence.

They could see that being evangelical about cementing stereotypes is not a good look.

However, when this article came out, they hadn't yet got that memo.

It should not be coming as a surprise to anybody that there is no evidence that hormones and surgical interventions can be a 'cure for toy preference'.

From the article where Jackie and Susie Green were interviewed. So presumably, a pre-approved publication.

That’s just what happened to Jackie Green.

She was born 18 years ago with all the physical characteristics of a boy and her parents named her Jack, but from being a toddler she acted like a girl.

She always wanted to wear girls’ clothes and play with girls’ toys.

From then on her life became more and more difficult until eventually her parents made the decision to pay for Jackie, as she was known by that time, to have £28,000 of treatment and complete gender reassignment surgery.

Some might query whether Susie, who was always a very open-minded mother, did enough to discourage Jack from playing with girls’ toys and wearing feminine clothes – both signs displayed from the age of three. Did she really try to intervene enough?

Oh good God yes,” she says. “I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual.

She didn’t really have many dolls, but what cuddly toys she had she would nurture and treat like babies, not at all like a boy.

But initially her dad just said: ‘I’m not having this’ and when she was aged about four he insisted we have a go at trying to stop her having anything girly.

Subsequently Jackie Green became depressed and suicidal, and was given hormone and surgical treatment.

I looked too, and either the wayback machine or archive had a lot of links on Mermaids. It's how I found a SW schools guide that they removed (which I'd saved but wanted the URL).

I remember so many threads on mermaids.

I remember, when I had a lot more time, researching myself some of the residential and several of us finding old web links, some archived.

It might be worth revisiting and collecting a few together.