Kemi Badenoch nails it

Nokes comes off as being not really informed. That she expected Badenoch to comment on areas that are not in Kemi's remit. And just kept going. She really comes across as thinking she is 'clever' but is not really reflecting that in reality.

Kemi sounds so sensible and rational asking for open debate without people being intimidated into not talking. And she talks about Keira Bell, and Baroness Faulkner. So we know who is being intimidated and who's doing it

She has the 'true trans' position. Where there are some men who are deserving of certain dispensation and others who are not.

(That's not my position, partly because I don't think that access to women should be based on what men think, but what women think.)

But would be interesting to see exactly what sorts of access she will grant, and on what basis.

Because however it sounds in theory, I can't see how it's ever going to work in practice. It might have done 40 years ago, but transactivists have blown it.

I'd also like to see some in picking of what she means by trans children.

It's interesting that she talks about it in the context of conversion therapy and clinicians. It would appear she sees it very much as a medical issue, not a civil rights one.

I would, however, say that she appears fairly up to speed about the various strands, issues, bullying, and misrepresentation going on.

I'm so glad I watched it.

The next question then needs to be: define the verb "identify" in this context.

JD-P in 2020, what a shame the benches were almost empty.

Having watched more of the Select Committee video, it is clear from the way she speaks to her that Caroline Nokes does not like Kemi Badenoch AT ALL. Go Kemi, you absolute star!

Ah thank you. I've heard of her!

You're welcome @Masdintle. I think the blonde woman is Jackie Doyle-Price, MP.

ATeamAmy thank you so much for encouraging us to watch to the end of the piece. Well worth waiting for KB demonstrating the sort of rhetoric that leads to abuse and pile ons about trans issues by quoting back to CN the way CN chose to frame her question.

Who is the blonde-haired t*rf woman? () She was refreshingly direct about the need to question whether the GRA is still needed given the change in the social landscape since 2004.

Thanks for the link @IsitM

If the Committee needs a Tory Chair and is elected, I assume it was on the back of Labour and LibDem support. She won't be making friends in her own party especially Liz, Kemi and Jackie.

It will be interesting whether or not politicians feign ignorance over what safeguarding means a la TRA rhetoric.

Do watch the end of the Select Committee meeting after the CN question (It's around 10 more minutes and gold). This is exactly the point KB goes on to make: that the way CN framed her question was a deliberate attempt to make KB look like a transphobe (and designed to whip up hatred against her from TRAs), rather than someone concerned about safeguarding. CN's face at the end is a picture.

Will Quince: The No. 1 priority of any school or anyone in society has to be the protection and safeguarding of children above anything else. In my view, that is a reasonable position for anyone to take."

The normal TRA reaction to that is oh my God you're saying all trans people are predators.

Any intense discussion of safeguarding gets targeted, on here too, and people get deleted.

It will be interesting whether or not politicians feign ignorance over what safeguarding means a la TRA rhetoric.

Someone with a safeguarding brief talking about safeguarding feels like the end game to me.

So a minister - who just happens to hold a safeguarding brief - says he wouldn't be over the moon with an 18 year old male sharing sleeping accommodation with his younger daughters.

Well, thank fuck.

Love Kemi. Absolutely love her, and her simple answer "No".

My point really was that she was pretending she was trying to remember something that she had written down in front of her. But I suspect she was using 'I'm frantically trying to recall something' in order to recall it completely wrong.

But yes, the wider context is he was absolutely talking about two people of the opposite sex. And three times she tried to make out that it wasn't about that.

Fortunately, Kemi didn't let her.

It's very worrying that politicians are hellbent on following the TRA playbook.

First of all we had you want all trans people to die, it's just genocide.

Then it's about excluding all trans people from sport - not the wrong category of sport.

Now it's trans people and children in general, and not two people of the opposite sex.

People are far more confident in challenging it now, though.

Quince has two daughters, according to the newspapers reporting on this. He presumably imagines, and has done for ever, that any residential school trip or whatever will mean his daughters will share sleeping and bathroom accommodation with other girls, as anybody rational thought till 5 minutes ago.

Nokes has de-sexed the people involved. She talks of 'children' in dorms with 'trans children', thus neatly muddying the waters (what a surprise). I would have no problem with my granddaughter sharing with a trans boy, on the grounds that that child is female - still a 'trans child' though. What I would have a massive problem with, as do the vast majority of us here and Kemi B and Will Quince et al is a 'trans girl' i.e. a male sharing with our daughters. Does Nokes really not see the difference or think we can't see the dangers, even if she can't?

Sorry for that inarticulate, stream of consciousness post! But it really is great to watch the rest of that discussion, Kemi is a bloody star!

WOW! I think everyone should watch what was said after the clip posted by Glinner. KB made it clear that she doesn't agree with self ID, and that they way that CN had framed her question to KB was an attempt to get it framed that KB doesn't believe in rights for trans people, and is not a constructive way of discussing the matter. CN ignores this and jumps onto a question about trans healthcare and why isn't the government hurrying up to ensure the most marginalised get what they need (I'm paraphrasing). KB says amongst other things she is talking to clinicians about their concerns with the Conversion Therapy Bill. There's then a further question from a different committee member about self ID, and again KB answers so well - that the concern is not about trans people but about predators abusing and exploiting it. There is then a question about whether the govt will follow other countries' self ID legislation. KB brilliantly says we should make our own laws for our own needs. And finally, a brilliant question about abolishing GRA altogether. And Kemi's answer is very diplomatic about a wider review/ conversation being needed to reflect the current times. But basically, she tells CN off for the way she's framed her question and the abusive atmosphere this creates and the abuse detransitioners etc have experiences. CN is really not happy with this.

From 15.34

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0e356ee5-a5b6-41a8-9be7-beac83ec376c

Thanks, IsitM, that's helpful. So Nokes has completely misquoted him.

AbitofaLark - so Nokes was voted in ... some people think she is suited for and capable of this role.

The Chairs of Select Committees are elected by the House in a secret ballot.

They have to have a minimum level of support from MPs in their own party even to be nominated to go forward for election.

The posts of Chair of Select Committees are allocated to the parties according to the relative numbers of the parties in the House. So the Conservatives will have more in this Parliament.

Will Quince's actual words, from the transcript of the meeting:
(My bold)

"Dr Caroline Johnson: Let me move on to my second question. You have the safeguarding brief. The number of children who identify as
transgender is increasing, and schools need to strike a balance of
ensuring that these children can be cared for properly and that their needs are properly met. Schools also need to balance this with the needs of the wider school population.
I have been contacted as a member of this Committee in the last week by parents who are concerned about the presence of an 18-year-old transwoman in the boarding house of their teenage daughters. What guidance does the Department provide to schools on managing these situations in a sensitive way that provides for the privacy, dignity and wellbeing of all the students?

Will Quince: This area has been a minefield, if we are being honest, and we are working very closely with the Government Equalities Office to formulate our guidance in this space. Yes, we have our RHSE curriculum. I am conscious the school you reference is independent, I think, so it falls under a slightly different framework.
There are two competing priorities here. The first is the 2010 Equality
Act—the importance of all children and young people being treated
equally, and ensuring that where there are protected characteristics, they are recognised.
At the same time, any school also has legal obligations, and a duty to
safeguard, protect and promote the welfare of all children. On the face of what you just said, as a parent—specifically a parent of two young girls—I probably would not be overly happy with the situation you describe.
Given that the school is independent, it is slightly more complex, but I
would suggest that the parent speaks with the headteacher, the
governors and, if necessary, raises it with the Independent Schools Inspectorate as the school will not be covered by Ofsted.

Dr Caroline Johnson: Should the Government be providing guidance on this issue to help schools? You said it is a minefield, but schools need help navigating that minefield and do not want to get caught up in legal wrangles. Would it not be best if the Government provided some detailed guidance on how schools can manage this for the wellbeing of all students?

Will Quince: I will speak to the Minister for Schools and I am sure that
that the matter will be in progress alongside the Government Equalities Office. But at the same time you can give all the guidance in the world that sets out the legal position but you need schools to use their common sense and follow the law as it stands at the moment. I would suggest that the duty to protect and to safeguard should probably override anything else.

Chair: What do you mean by anything else?

Will Quince: The No. 1 priority of any school or anyone in society has to be the protection and safeguarding of children above anything else. In my view, that is a reasonable position for anyone to take."

P13 onwards
committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/9805/pdf/

Yes, she also misquoted Quince and then complained when Kemi asked for clarification of 'trans', because she said that was the term Quince used. It wasn't, I don't think?

Nokes wasn't reading off a paper. She says "Minister Quince said that he will be uneasy if his children were in dormitories with trans pupils."

He didn't. The question posed to Quince was whether he would be comfortable with a very specific scenario - an 18 year old male who identifies as a trans girl sharing boarding accommodation with his daughters. He said,
"“On the face of what you just said, as a parent – and in particular a parent of two young girls – I probably wouldn’t be overly happy with the situation you describe.”

It suits certain people to represent this as being about 'trans children' rather than 'males and females sharing'.

I think most parents would not have concerns about their child sharing with a child of the same sex who identifies as trans. There is nothing in what Quince said to suggest that he would.