Page 4 | Will female swimmers ever win Olympic Gold again? Thomas aims for top…

MoonOnASpoon · 04/03/2022 11:03

“I just want to show trans kids and younger trans athletes that they’re not alone,” she said. “They don’t have to choose between who they are and the sport they love.”

But women and girls do. They have to feel alone, bullied and ostracised if they dare to object or speak the truth. They don't even get to choose to the sport they love - there's no point them doing it at all if it's open to males which means the females are ruled out of winning.

LGBT category would be wrong because LGB has nothing to do with this issue, plenty of sportspeople are gay or bi and already in the correct categories. I would go for an "open" category. Male, female, and open. Everyone can choose the category for their sex, or if they don't feel they belong there because of "gender", they can choose the open category. In that category, a male can announce themselves as a woman and wear a women's cossie if they want to, because it would make no difference as it's fully open. Meanwhile females get a female-only category.

TheAbbotOfUnreason · 04/03/2022 10:52

Testosterone is a banned drug in sport.

Female trans athletes (FtM) can apply for a TUE to enable them to compete (in the male category).

sashh · 04/03/2022 10:41

@SerenadeOfTheSchoolRun

But if a trans man was taking testosterone they presumably wouldn’t be allowed in the woman’s category and also wouldn’t be competitive in the men’s category so a trans man’s category could be a good thing.

I guess also that a trans woman taking hormones would not be competitive in the men’s category but would have an unfair advantage in the women’s category so again a different category would be a possibility.

These categories would not be based on beliefs but on physical differences due to hormone use.

Testosterone is a banned drug in sport.

You could argue that there should be a steroid user's category or a growth hormone category.

Phobiaphobic · 04/03/2022 10:32

@DottyHarmer

I think, sadly, that they will not compete in the Olympics because activist organisations will see that this will be a complete own goal. I think Lia will have a handy back injury or some such just beforehand, otherwise the world will be laughing when a 6’4” bloke jumps into the pool in a women’s race.

I suspect the world is busy lining up lots of 6'4" male bodied people to jump into the pool with Lia.

Cuck00soup · 04/03/2022 10:32

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's amazing how many average male competitors realise they are actually women and go on to win medals. I wonder why sport attracts such a large number of people trapped in the wrong, non winning, bodies. Someone should research that.

They really should!

It would be equally amazing if a whole bunch of women decided they had really been men all along, got pay rises and stopped being raped. Except that wouldn't happen because reasons.

Phobiaphobic · 04/03/2022 10:31

@TheGreatATuin

Lia is an absolute boon for our side. The US is far behind on the gender debate. The higher Lia flies, along with all the sporting bodies shutting down discussion about it, the faster the US will peak. Laurel Hubbard was bad, but Hubbard was also middle aged and in a far more over looked sport in NZ. I hate to say it but I suspect Lia might help turn the tide in the US faster than any feminist voice might ever do.

Totally agree. Fly, Lia, fly!

But at the same time, it's infuriating how little many people care.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2022 10:00

It's amazing how many average male competitors realise they are actually women and go on to win medals. I wonder why sport attracts such a large number of people trapped in the wrong, non winning, bodies. Someone should research that.

They really should!

ScrollingLeaves · 04/03/2022 09:57

I meant that what the trans woman swimmer is showing trans kids is how to cheat.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/03/2022 09:55

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DottyHarmer · 04/03/2022 09:51

I think, sadly, that they will not compete in the Olympics because activist organisations will see that this will be a complete own goal. I think Lia will have a handy back injury or some such just beforehand, otherwise the world will be laughing when a 6’4” bloke jumps into the pool in a women’s race.

OperationDessertStorm · 04/03/2022 09:46

Er no. I didn’t mean LGBT categories at the Olympics. I mean we have numerous different ways to encourage participation in sport in general in normal life and that these things enhance sports competition and inclusion rather than detract from it. This group do have options to get involved in sport if they do what everyone else has had to do and carve out their own space - not carve across everyone else’s.

(I’m glad I tried this out on here and not in real life! Obviously not being clear)

mummykel16 · 04/03/2022 09:31

[quote LunaLights]Thomas plans to swim in the Olympics.

Thomas, who has applied to law school, now has her sights set on representing Team USA at the 2024 Olympic Games in Paris. But first she’ll swim in the NCAA Women’s Division I Swimming and Diving Championships starting on March 16 in Atlanta, where she’s favoured to win the 200 and 500-yard freestyle events.

www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/im-not-a-man-transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-pushes-back-against-critics/news-story/5a762ebbd6577790ffaccc953af76ec2[/quote]
No, the women may as well quit now.

At least save their dignity and respect, if men are allowed to cheat compete against women it would be best to walk away and the men can play with themselves.

viques · 04/03/2022 09:30

@JackieWeaversZoomAc

The problem with many of these suggestions is TW don't want separate competitions. They want to compete with women and be in women spaces. Thomas wants to get his dick out in the womens changing room. And win races against women. And how women feel about that doesn't matter.

Funny isn’t it, the one thing transwomen don’t want to claim for themselves from our lives is the misogyny we have to deal with from men. I wonder why that is.

LondonWolf · 04/03/2022 09:20

We keep thinking that, wondering when we're going to get an 'I'm Spartacus' moment from the spectators, but they just sit there like the dog in the house on fire saying 'this is fine'. The current Adidas advert actually celebrates a towering 6'4" transwoman competing against women in women's volleyball.

Indeed. I'm fast believing there will be no moment when the light bulb goes on.

IvyTwines · 04/03/2022 09:17

@TheGreatATuin

Lia is an absolute boon for our side. The US is far behind on the gender debate. The higher Lia flies, along with all the sporting bodies shutting down discussion about it, the faster the US will peak. Laurel Hubbard was bad, but Hubbard was also middle aged and in a far more over looked sport in NZ. I hate to say it but I suspect Lia might help turn the tide in the US faster than any feminist voice might ever do.

We keep thinking that, wondering when we're going to get an 'I'm Spartacus' moment from the spectators, but they just sit there like the dog in the house on fire saying 'this is fine'. The current Adidas advert actually celebrates a towering 6'4" transwoman competing against women in women's volleyball.

viques · 04/03/2022 09:13

@WouldIwasShookspeared

It's amazing how many average male competitors realise they are actually women and go on to win medals. I wonder why sport attracts such a large number of people trapped in the wrong, non winning, bodies. Someone should research that.

There are also apparently more people in elite sport with DSD than the distribution curve in the general population would predict . Even more strangely they are clustered around certain sports. Statistics eh!

JackieWeaversZoomAc · 04/03/2022 09:05

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JackieWeaversZoomAc · 04/03/2022 09:02

@OperationDessertStorm

But we do already have groups specifically to encourage people from different communities ie LGBT or Muslim specific football teams, Paralympics to highlight disabled inclusion in sport, under 12s or over 35s teams to allow for fairness and increased participation of different age groups. If they were seeking specific LGBT groups or adding to mixed sex groups (with clear rules) there’s a clear precedent.

What we don’t do is completely remove a (protected attribute) category for a disadvantaged group because of the emergence of another disadvantaged group.

LGBT categories at the Olympics or in sport is a horrific idea idea. LGBT rugby team - no problem. Separating LGB To compete only against each other? Are you mad?

Your sexuality does not give you an advantage in sports. A man competing in the woman's sports has a huge advantage. Leave the LGB out of it. This is purely a T issue snd a TW issue at that.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 04/03/2022 08:59

Just linking this because towards the end it has some really powerful posts from an ex competitive college swimmer. The video is powerful too, of course.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4493512-A-report-from-a-mother-of-a-swimmer-USA

Ladylornax12 · 04/03/2022 08:58

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OperationDessertStorm · 04/03/2022 08:52

@Zerogravity

If they were seeking specific LGBT groups or adding to mixed sex groups (with clear rules) there’s a clear precedent. I think you are mixing up different things. We don't have LGBT teams competing in high-level competitions because there is no need. Being gay has nothing to do with athletic ability, sex does. If people want to be on a LGBT for social reasons that is up to them. Paralympics and age categories are all to enable fair conditions. You can't expect 6 year old football players to play against grown men or wheelchair-using basketball players to play competitively against able-bodies ones. Gender identity is totally different. It has no clear definition, not everyone has one, nobody can see it or measure it, it has no bearing on your ability to do sport. In short, it has no place in defining sporting categories.

Yeah maybe I wasn’t clear. The precedent is set for them to have their own specific groups or competitions to encourage participation but NOT to takeover other specific groups and categories.

NeedToKnow101 · 04/03/2022 08:42

Hope Lia gets to the Olympics; show this shitshow for what it is.

Laurel Hubbard should have been enough though tbh.

NoSquirrels · 04/03/2022 08:36

The photos of LT in Penn team swimming costume are very revealing because a) next to female teammates LT is wildly at an advantage physically and b) LT’s physique in the costume makes it clear their costume was not designed for that body type - they’ve literally struggled to find a costume big enough (if it fitted like that on a natal female it would be practically indecent as the straps/chest aren’t sitting in the right place).

I assume that in the USA team there will be plenty of money to overcome that issue but even so on the world’s stage it will be shocking to see a male body in a female race.

I think everyone should be free to do what they want with their own bodies and make choices in their lives but then you have to accept your choices have consequences- which in this case should be giving up competition swimming.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 04/03/2022 08:36

I do find it strange that my DD can play an age group down in Mini Rugby (so she can play U8 not U9) for her safety as shes smaller and lighter than the boys, yet some people can't see the difference between adults. Its also acknowledged she needs separate changing facilities.
This is children pre puberty. In a few years she will have to play in a girls team... again for safety.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 04/03/2022 08:34

@JellySaurus

Sports is divided according to physiological categories, not belief categories. There is no more reason to create categories for athletes according to their gender beliefs than there is to create categories according to their other beliefs.

It's not anymore as evidenced by the biological males in the 'female' category. I agree that no-one has said why we would need to divide sport by you affiliation with poorly defined concepts of 'gender'.