Exulansic has reduced following?

@Cailleach1

What a strange response. I don't know what to make of it.

For a start, if you don't have the time to watch these videos, I'm sure you wouldn't expect me or anyone else to provide annotated notes on them. Why not go and watch them, or just not comment?

But more importantly, you're in a whole thread of people almost unanimously agreeing about what's happening and how damaging it is... are we all wrong? Have we all watched the same videos and reached the same wrong conclusion? Doesn't that seem like a coincidence?

This is concern trolling. en.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll You're asking questions as though they're earnest: but actually you're stirring. It makes me think you're personally involved. Either one of the people criticised or one of their friends.

I think the key issue is that people should behave well, no matter what context. And so the lies and bad faith arguments and bullying campaigns by KD and Ex should not be acceptable

I think we need everyone to fight this

This is why I say that some parts of this are around feminism and a feminists are critical of gender stereotypes, hence GC as trans has its roots in rigid stereotypes for males and females.

The rest is reasonable discussion within a wide range of realms and contexts. Schools, medicine, therapy, science, law and how safeguarding adds to all these. Men are in all these professions too.

I'm with @PatsArrow - on no level was she trying to say any of us needed to 'be nice to men'? This is exactly the bad faith arguments that the GC movement has descended to. It's incredibly destructive and disappointing.
And i agree @WarriorN this is all about egos.

who does this benefit

I had a longer post but quite frankly, a few people's egos as far as I can tell.

And all tras.

and I remind you that we're not here to be nice to men

You see, this is exactly the barbed comment I'm talking about. I never once said that women were here to 'be nice' to men. I said the fight disproportionately effects women and girls. Just in my own personal experience I have many male friends and aquaintences that are put off by hostile comments and fear of being piled-on.
I don't consider that terribly healthy. I think we need everyone to fight this.

Just by opinion. I'm out.

is not the kind of person to lie down and take a beating.

I don't think anyone should be required to 'take a beating'. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And, entitled to voice their opinion. It can be refuted if wrong.

I can't remember exactly (and will try to come back with the exact quote), but didn't CG deflect some discussion or other to make some personal remark about KD being so obsessed with paedophilia when KD was talking about safeguarding. Seems to me that all involved are well able, and inclined, to play down and dirty. No angels and no devils.

I also have many male friends who are GC and have been involved in activism. However I've known a male friend turn up to Kellie-Jays Speakers corner event, not even attempt to speak just with his female friends, and been told he's not welcome (not by KJ herself). Solid Male allies repeatedly told they are not welcome in this movement. I don't mean just well known ones. I know plenty of normal men who have been very put off publicly supporting the GC cause for fear of a Twitter pile-on

I see very few men turning out at any of the events I've been too, and those that do are made welcome. I suspect that if a single incident of a random woman telling a random man at an event that he's not welcome is enough to deter your from the GC path, PatsArrow, you weren't on the GC path to start with. And I'd remind you that we're not here to be nice to men.

TO THE CRITICS and Karen Davis – On their Genspect and Stella O'Malley assault. As a parent of a child with gender issues, i am horrified by this, Genspect has been my rock, the one true source of support, information and hope, in a sea of trans affirming doctors and therapist. I have posted numerous defences and comment on Davis videos and she deletes them all. Would they not spend a bit more time attacking the trans activists rather than those on the gender critical side? Genspect has done an awful lot for this side of the debate and they are trashing them. Its not just criticism its a total assault of lies and disinformation, and I’m appalled to see people on MUMSNET actually taking some of these accusations at face value without having looked into what Genspect really has to say on the subjects. Its difficult to imagine why Davis is honing in on Genspect, there is certainly no logical reason if you wish to defend real sex and gender, but for god sake MUMNETTERS dont YOU participate by failing to support Genspect and Stella O'Malley. SPEAK UP PEOPLE ........“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me”. Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) German theologian and Lutheran pastor.[2][3] He is best known for his opposition to the Nazi regime Niemöller was imprisoned in Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps from 1938 to 1945.

Backtracking a bit, several posts above mention "transitioning" wrt CAIS, ie. bodily modifications and/or behaviour aiming to mimic the opposite sex.

The trajectory and intended destination is: "man".

A person with CAIS cannot "transition" in the direction of "woman" because the starting point is "woman".

A person with CAIS cannot even manage as convincing a "female to male transition" as an XX woman, bodily or behaviourally, as testosterone has no effect.

Sierra Weir ("Exulansic") seems to think it is a huge "Gotcha!" that she has discovered a single example in the scientific literature of a person with CAIS undergoing "transition" by phalloplasty, ie. "identifying" as a man / male.

Which makes that person no different from the hundreds of thousands of XX women doing the exact same thing.

What would be a "Gotcha!" (if it were possible but it is not) is the discovery of a person with CAIS undergoing "gender affirmation surgery" in the other direction, ie. from "man" aiming for "woman".

However, that is just as impossible as an XX woman "transitioning" to become . . . a woman.

SW started on the CAIS bandwagon before Dalea Rundblad made an appearance on Benjamin Boyce's YouTube Channel.

She claims it was in response to persistent requests that she cover CAIS. If so, she had a choice.

She chose to dive head first into an area about which she was even less well informed, and even less well qualified to comment on, than "gender surgery".

She chose to pitch the frankly ludicrous notion that CAIS is THE wedge issue that opens the doors of women's spaces to all comers.

If she had been pestered to cover CAIS, was it vanity, cowardice or punting for clicks that persuaded her ignore the obvious take on CAIS in relation to trans, ie. "red herring - nothing to see here"?

She and Karen "You're Kidding Right" Davis seem to be operating as a tag-team, with both bent on the destruction of a tiny UK Charity (DSD Families - focussing on parents of children with VSDs) and Genspect (a new organisation that also works with parents) - aided and abetted by a mob of supposedly "GC feminists".

You could not make this stuff up!!

Who benefits from a campaign by US activists to destroy the reputation of tiny UK Charity DSD Families?

Well, Mermaids must be licking their lips for a start.

How about Genspect?

Any and all organisations promoting the medicalisation of children and portraying psychotherapy and "watchful waiting" as "conversion therapy".

Even if SW and KD are well-intentioned, they are supremely misguided in undermining the few sources of support for parents that are not full-on "gender affirming", Queer Theory ideologues.

gcrhino has already detailed the lies that KD has been spreading about Genspect.

A quick peek at Gettr and I cannot believe how much worse this has got in the last few days!!

KD, SW, Vanessa Vokey and their fans are accusing Genspect, DSD Families, a number of well-known GC individuals, and virtually anyone who has a passing connection with them, or who has not come out against them, of being in a "paedophile network"!!!

Even Erin Brewer has got in on the act and is throwing "pedo" accusations around with gay abandon! 😱

Please, not Erin too! 😥

The whole lot of them need a holiday from Social Media, including video platforms, to re-calibrate and re-focus.

They are going absolutely bonkers out there! If we thought the "GC Witch Hunts" by TRAs were bad, they have got nothing on this. Give it a few days and the whole of Mumsnet will be blasted as a massive pedo-network if we don't all agree with SW, KD and VV! 🙄

The saving grace is that Gettr is such a backwater that they are all pretty much screaming into the void and perhaps are best left to it until they regain their sanity.

Associations with anyone who is connected with/active supporter of paedophile groups/paedophilia would be unacceptable, of course; if that were true. Even if not revealed as an official advisor, or stated as being on the 'Team'. Sometimes there is 'the truth' (depending on what precise question was asked), and then there is 'the full truth'. There is no amount of squinting or equivocation which could deodorise that and most people would be very happy if there were no such associations. However oblique.

I seem to remember that KD may have corrected her comments on Claire Graham being a member of the 'Team', rather than a paid employee of the Team? It doesn't sound like a substantive issue, to be honest. The term Team is quite vague. I think they don't appear to be a registered charity (I could be wrong) , nor transparent. They (and any decent org) should be eager to show themselves as open, accountable, transparent and registered/audited. I don't think openness is some randoms typing, and spreading, what they are allege Genspect does or doesn't do. The organisation itself must be open, transparent and accountable.

I must admit, in general, I would be suspicious of any organisation which gets shirty when asked perfectly reasonable questions about funding, associations and mission. You'd imagine they would be keen to show themselves as upright. But then having lived in Ireland when all the historical sex abuse cases (by oh so respectable orgs and people) were made public, I would not be naive about the possibility that any such organisation is not exactly as they would like to portray.

GDS? .....damn auto correct. I mean GRA of course.

Solidaritynotcharity I used to consider myself GC. Like you, I have the beliefs lots of GC people have. However (also like you) I'm horrified by some of the things I hear 'GC' people say.

I think I'm becoming more moderate. I believe in keeping and increasing all Womens rights and safe spaces, protecting our children from harmful ideas and unnecessary medicines and surgeries that can ruin their lives. I'd like to repeal the GDS. However I sometimes get uncomfortable at the hounding of any grown trans person who says they are AGP for no real reason other than them 'being that'. Also the harrassment of any adult woman who has transitioned and says they are happy. Maybe they are? Maybe they won't be in time? I don't feel it's my place to berate them.

I also have many male friends who are GC and have been involved in activism. However I've known a male friend turn up to Kellie-Jays Speakers corner event, not even attempt to speak just with his female friends, and been told he's not welcome (not by KJ herself). Solid Male allies repeatedly told they are not welcome in this movement. I don't mean just well known ones. I know plenty of normal men who have been very put off publicly supporting the GC cause for fear of a Twitter pile-on.

I know Women and girls are disproportionately affected by all this....but I mainly see this this as a fight for reality, truth and facts. I believe men are allowed to be concerned about that too.

I know not all people do this. I've just seen enough people do it to make me feel uneasy.

So I'm not sure what I am. I'd say GC if asked I guess. But I'm not wedded to it.

I don't know anything about KD but I don't think this is a surprise from Ex. All of her videos have this quality of a very extreme focus and fitting things she sees within the confines of what her views will allow.

My guess is that before she rejected gender ideology she would have been the same way in arguing for it. Rigid thinkers like that can get very angry because they don't see how others could come to different conclusions unless they are being self-serving or are being deceived in some way.

No I don't call myself GC.

It becomes a political movement. And then we have this situation.

I'll call myself feminist and discuss gender ideology and feminism within that context. The rest is science, medicine and safeguarding.

@PatsArrow do you not consider yourself GC? I do - well, my beliefs are GC. But I'm soooo disappointed with the people in the movement

These abstract ideas about sex and gendered personality and concrete bodies are exactly why trans ideology is so bad for children with comprehension difficulties (and younger neurotypical children struggle with the abstract) and leaves them more vulnerable open to abuse within the "queer world."

Solidarityovercharity god no. It's terrible optics for GCs.

I want nothing to do with them.

Yes I agree @PatsArrow I think accusing other GC people gets much more clicks and comments for KD and Ex and that's why they do it. This doesn't reflect well on the GC movement though

Yes I thought she'd said she used to be a TRA, but obviously changed her stance.

I work with speech therapists. Ive been trained in certain therapies and worked under sp and lang leads with individual children as well as whole groups of children with similar diagnoses.

She's not thinking like the speech therapists I know nor is thinking in a way I recognise when working on the "chalk face" with any child, let alone one who has a language difficulty.

She's not applying what we would know about a child with or without these disabilities from their perception of the concrete world and how they make sense of that. Abstract ideas (which to a child genetics etc would be) are very hard to grasp.

She's chasing minor details and exaggerating them without context and doing a lot of damage in the process.

Exactly as I see TRAs do with people with dsds as well as teachers who don't understand what the hell they're talking about (gender bread shite.)

I thought it was already established that Ex was a TRA? I thought she admitted it?

*throwing shit back.