MI6

wrt values and hard won freedoms, it would be rather interesting if Richard Moore were to elaborate on what these are and the current state of play as to whether some groups are reporting that they're being stripped of their dignity and freedom.

When heading into a period of heightened geopolitical instability or even national unrest, it's good to have a shared understanding of values. It would be an interesting exercise to know what they are after such a protracted period of losing moral leadership on the international stage and by interventions with disastrous outcomes for the populace elsewhere.

Just like the head of MI6 a lot of pointless words from you Hawkins. At a time when innocent people are being killed the head of MI6 says but anyway, enough about that, let’s virtue signal about LGBT and point out what a ‘safe’ place MI6 is to work for LGBT people. If he can’t see this is not the time or place then that’s extremely worrying.

He’s an arsehole.

Ooh I'm a passionate swearer

I’m not sure people are intensely passionate about swearing 🤔

I mean i quite like swearing but I wouldn’t say I’m passionate about it

I give up. Got better things to do than read nothing off you Hawkins

Crack on with your debate

You first hawkins

It's mainly when some posters we more intensely passionate about using curse words to describe the head of mi6, when how does that help with constructive analysis and debate

Is he reading, do you think? Will his feelings be hurt?

@DomesticatedZombie

I understand your perspective, but I think it's still better for constructive analysis and better understanding.

[quote Hawkins001]@Terfydactyl

How exactly is it a good thing when earlier in the thread a poster basically called the head of mi6 a *** it's those comments I was trying encourage that instead of just cursing, why not try focus on analysis and debate ect. At least that is my perspectives.[/quote]
Absolutely

Off you go

Show me how its done

You haven’t brought anything at all to the thread Hawkins

Not one thing of debate or anylisis

Expression of exasperation.

@DomesticatedZombie

Even if it was true, what's the point of character assassination, when it just seems frivolous ?

[quote Wanderingowl]**@ErrolTheDragon* Oh for goodness sakes. This sort of comment is pretty crass. The rights of LGB and probably various other letters of the alphabet have quite clearly been seriously eroded/destroyed in Russia under Putin and doubtless would be in Ukraine if the Russians take it over.*

This is such a gross oversimplification of the situation in the Ukraine, that tbh, is endemic of the whole current discussion around the war/invasion. The Ukrainian National Guard, about 7 years ago incorporated the the far right Sector Right and the actual, literal Nazi Azov Battalion. Both Sector Right and Azov Battalion have been threatening, beating, torturing and murdering gay men for years now, while their elements within the police force ensure the police look the other way. They have, on camera, made direct threats to all men and women living in same sex relationships. Telling them that not only would they never allow same sex marriage but that they know which couples are living together and while they think they are living quietly under the radar, they aren't and they will be punished for it.

While I don't blame President Zelensky for the current make up of his army, as he inherited this issue from Poroshenko when he was elected in 2019 and has not had a fair chance to solve this situation, especially given Covid. The reality is that life for gay, lesbian and bisexuals in same sex relationships in Ukraine, is honestly somewhat worse than it is for their peers in Russia. Which isn't to say that it isn't awful in Russia. It is. It's just even worse in regions of Ukraine where Sector Right and Azov have any form of control and influence.[/quote]
this is a lot better than some posters saying the head of mi6 is a *** ect,

[quote Hawkins001]@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's mainly when some posters we more intensely passionate about using curse words to describe the head of mi6, when how does that help with constructive analysis and debate, I was trying to encourage the overall perspectives, that rather than just cursing is it not better to have a debate on the text and ideology ect[/quote]
yes but he's a knob.

The Ukrainian National Guard, about 7 years ago incorporated the the far right Sector Right and the actual, literal Nazi Azov Battalion.

Interesting to read that because, in various other discussions on Triggernometry, it's claimed that that is restricted to part of West Ukraine rather than general. It's egregious anywhere but I'd be interested if you think it's more widespread than a small area in the West. Is it plausible that they have been supported with CIA training as outlined here?

jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato

@Terfydactyl

How exactly is it a good thing when earlier in the thread a poster basically called the head of mi6 a *** it's those comments I was trying encourage that instead of just cursing, why not try focus on analysis and debate ect. At least that is my perspectives.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's mainly when some posters we more intensely passionate about using curse words to describe the head of mi6, when how does that help with constructive analysis and debate, I was trying to encourage the overall perspectives, that rather than just cursing is it not better to have a debate on the text and ideology ect

@ErrolTheDragon Oh for goodness sakes. This sort of comment is pretty crass. The rights of LGB and probably various other letters of the alphabet have quite clearly been seriously eroded/destroyed in Russia under Putin and doubtless would be in Ukraine if the Russians take it over.

This is such a gross oversimplification of the situation in the Ukraine, that tbh, is endemic of the whole current discussion around the war/invasion. The Ukrainian National Guard, about 7 years ago incorporated the the far right Sector Right and the actual, literal Nazi Azov Battalion. Both Sector Right and Azov Battalion have been threatening, beating, torturing and murdering gay men for years now, while their elements within the police force ensure the police look the other way. They have, on camera, made direct threats to all men and women living in same sex relationships. Telling them that not only would they never allow same sex marriage but that they know which couples are living together and while they think they are living quietly under the radar, they aren't and they will be punished for it.

While I don't blame President Zelensky for the current make up of his army, as he inherited this issue from Poroshenko when he was elected in 2019 and has not had a fair chance to solve this situation, especially given Covid. The reality is that life for gay, lesbian and bisexuals in same sex relationships in Ukraine, is honestly somewhat worse than it is for their peers in Russia. Which isn't to say that it isn't awful in Russia. It is. It's just even worse in regions of Ukraine where Sector Right and Azov have any form of control and influence.

[quote Hawkins001]@Terfydactyl

I would prefer more constructive analysis and more debate, rather than some posters just saying the head of mi6 is a pickle, so to speak, ect.

It's easy to be crude, but much better to have good analysis and debates so further understanding can be achieved.[/quote]
You do realise this is mumsnet and you are patronising some really fucking clever women?

I mean I'm not one of the clever ones, but bloody hell I hope one of them comes along and hands you your arse.

What are we meant to be analysing and debating here exactly?

Maybe sense of entitlement might be taken into consideration at the same time as taking things under advisement.

Be a leader. Show us