Mhairi Black, piece by Rowan Moore in Guardian: have people seen this?

Iirc Charles Moore either featured Felix or had Felix involved when Charles guest edited Today a year or two back.

RoyalCorgi the possibility that females can be safely accepted into male spaces blows the TRA argument (that some males need refuge from violent males) out of the water.
If its for valadation a males personal risk reduces yet increases for a female.

Once that is discussed the argument is then based on passing and male violence.

If a woman who may or may not pass can safely be in a male space then the problem becomes why cant men also accept GNC men.

Thats a male acceptance & violence problem which males have to work to solve.

Or campaign for a third mixed sex space.

A father is not going to believe that his daughter will not face harrasssment while undressing or taking a shower in a mens changing area.
If that were true men would have no problem bringing their daughters into mens toilets and changing rooms. They would be confident that the other men would self censor words and behavours to accommodate the child.
Women grow up accommodating children in their spaces. Its a right of passage for boys to leave that world behind and become men.

[quote ItsAllGoingToBeFine]You could ask Radio 4’s More or Less.

I believe they debunked that already.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000222z[/quote]
Someone should alert Mhairi.

Coming back to Rowan Moore, I always wonder with these older white men with trans f2m children why they're so keen on the rights of m2f trans people to enter women's spaces. It perpetuates the pretence that the debate is about trans people when it's really about trans women.

Feminists' arguments are centred on women wanting to keep biological men out of their spaces. This has no impact on Moore's child at all - they are a completely different demographic. In Moore's place I would be very worried about the risks for a biologically female young person entering exclusively male spaces.

You could ask Radio 4’s More or Less.

I believe they debunked that already.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000222z

Does anyone know is it possible to submit something to channel 4 factcheck or is there anything similar that you can submit something like Mhairi Black's DSD= levels of redheads statistic?

What a load of crap. Black gave totalmy misleading statistics about people with DSDs in a bid to point score, and also compared being able to 'self identify' what nationality you are on a questionnaire, to being able to legally falsify your birth certificate!

Such leadership to actively continue to disseminate misinformation and disinformation about VSDs…

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4488573-Mhairi-Black-and-gingers

Perhaps, when she loses her seat , Mhairi can get a column in the Grauniad. Bit of razzamatazz , liven up the craic a bit. ' Cunt of the Week ' feature - and touching human interest stories of course.

Hmmm I thought Mhairi did an impressive (maiden?!!) speech a few years back and it was refreshing to see a young female at Westminster. But she can’t/won’t listen to women’s concerns and charges forth with her own agenda and ‘personality’, reminding me Johnson too.

Blogblogblogblog I believe she the one who saw no problem with a adult performer uploading pictures of children onto the web to promote his branch out into primarly school visits. He had obtained the "free promotional" pictutes in a private setting without the consent of the children's parent and in breach of what is normal school safeguarding policy.
If someone points out a problem and the choice is to continue to ignore the problem thats a character trait.
An elected official calling members of the voting cunts is also a very good indication of that person's character.

Like Bojos bad hair gig it sets out her stall for all who want to vote or listen to her.

Anyway I expect that MNHQ will zap this thread.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/18/being-trans-transgender-rights-issues-rowan-moore-felix-moore

If I remember rightly Rowan has a trans child

Charles Moore's brother! Well it's a small world, is media land.

I haven't heard the debate so all I can go on is what he's stated.
But when he says that she doesn't diminish her opponents, and then quotes her saying she's a woman and she is not scared, that is what I would think is diminishing, indeed trivialising the risks to women and girls, the fears that other women and girls do have and the extreme discomfort that they feel, to the point of schoolgirls and women in workplaces avoiding the loo and indeed both women and men in offices hating these loos.

And then that a gender recognition certificate is irrelevant to single sex spaces. So it's just open access for all? And why if it's irrelevant is it so important to make it easier to get? The certificate was supposed to be the final stage in long complex process that a very few people would undergo. The whole thing was never intended for anyone who felt like it to simply declare a gender identity and thereby acquire a right of access to women's and girls' spaces in schools, hospitals and so on.

Mhairi Black makes a crap Scully.

I am genuinely baffled - was that the highlight of the speech? The answers are out there? What's meant to be impressive about that?

I wouldn't be so sure blogblog. Plenty of mothers seem quite happy to use their children to demonstrate their woke credentials

Trenchant though she was, she didn’t seek to diminish her opponents. “I don’t doubt that there are legitimate concerns,” she said, “but the answers are also out there.” Whether or not you agree, her words demanded that you engage with the substance of her arguments, not at the level of a Twitter spat.

The same Mhairi Black who calls women 'transphobic cunts' for standing up for their rights?
Some people just see what they want to see.

If Mhairi becomes a mother I think she’ll start to think differently about toilets. Especially if she has a daughter. You know when you start letting them become independent and they go into the toilets for the first time at a restaurant. And you say ‘ok’ cause your daughter doesn’t realise you have kept an eye on who’s been going in the toilets (and it’s the ladies). If a man then goes into the loos when your daughter is in there alone, how many would get up like a shot and go in. Doesn’t matter what the man looks like or what he’s wearing or even if it’s mixed sex or not Mhairi, bet you’d go in.

A very well-connected white man at that - his brother is Tory Peer Baron Charles Moore, the fox-hunting ex-editor of the Telegraph. And I'm sure there's no social contagion at play at all and it's pure fluke that so many transboys and transmen pull the name 'Felix' out if the air.