Does anyone else cringe at the word "diversity"?

@SamphiretheStickerist
“As for that last bit about segregation. Just sod off. That's disingenuous claptrap that absolutely ignores safeguarding, statistics around violence and everyone's lived experiences.

Who are you trying to support with that? Who do you think benefits from it? And how?”

Again, how is this different from the arguments used against gay and black people, aside from “they weren't that one group I dislike, I'm discriminating based on a different characteristic”.

Gay and black people were also being excluded in the name of "safeguarding", painted as dangerous sexual predators who needed to be kept separate for the sake of the children.

I oppose trans exclusion because discriminating against people based on how they were born is wrong.

The labels of "man" and "woman" are not inherently dictated by biological science, and biological science is what allows trans people to transition.

Don't be silly. Forget about 'labels' - liberate yourself!

[quote Lekisa658]@SamphiretheStickerist
“Well, not being so self absorbed that I think I can force the world to change its understanding of biological science”

The labels of "man" and "woman" are not inherently dictated by biological science, and biological science is what allows trans people to transition.

Biological science also shows that sex is anything but binary. Trans women on HRT grow breasts and have an increased risk of breast cancer. That's not the case for cis men.

“so self absorbed that I think I can force the world (...) to take well understood words and paste on a new meaning”

Like how the definition of marriage was changed to no longer mean "union between a man and a woman"? Get over it and move on.[/quote]
So much to dissect.

Let's just start with secondary sexual characteristics, like breasts, do not mean an individual has changed sex.

And are you trying to assert that if a group of men take a specific drug only those who wanted to transition would grow breasts ?

That the bodies of gay and straight men would somehow resist the effects of the drug?

That really is magical thinking!

Who asked you about "personalities"?

That's my paraphrasing those multiple genders, the things some people identify as.

Having grown up with gender bending being my youthful norm I am fully aware that anyone can be whoever the fuck they want to be, with no recourse to social mores, labels etc. Again, with the only proviso of 'do no harm'

That last is something that is lacking these days. Many women and girls have already been harmed by gender ideology.

What people oppose about your ideology is your persistence in imposing unwanted labels and strict segregation.

You do know that is bunkum, don't you? Quite the opposite is true. The only segregation a GC woman would insist upon would be required for the safety of a class of people... you know, commonly called safeguarding. It's that 'do no harm' thing again.

And frankly, you're wrong about sex being binary, but you're clearly not willing to listen to anything that may contradict your rigid
worldview.

Ah! But some of us are actually quite knowledgeable about human biology and can tell you that in this you are indisputably misinformed. It's complex, but it boils down to there are two sexes and a miscoding in the genes of an individual do not change that.

And the people you may be about to use as proof of your assertion have asked, across many media channels, as individuals and organisations, not to be used in that manner. They too ask that you do no harm!

@SamphiretheStickerist
“Well, not being so self absorbed that I think I can force the world to change its understanding of biological science”

The labels of "man" and "woman" are not inherently dictated by biological science, and biological science is what allows trans people to transition.

Biological science also shows that sex is anything but binary. Trans women on HRT grow breasts and have an increased risk of breast cancer. That's not the case for cis men.

“so self absorbed that I think I can force the world (...) to take well understood words and paste on a new meaning”

Like how the definition of marriage was changed to no longer mean "union between a man and a woman"? Get over it and move on.

Really? 😃

But it is simply your belief that the labels of "man" and "woman" should be dictated by biological sex, or that people should be segregated on that basis.

Well, not being so self absorbed that I think I can force the world to change its understanding of biological science, to take well understood words and paste on a new meaning, yes. Biological sex...

As for that last bit about segregation. Just sod off. That's disingenuous claptrap that absolutely ignores safeguarding, statistics around violence and everyone's lived experiences.

Who are you trying to support with that? Who do you think benefits from it? And how?

What people oppose about your ideology is your persistence in imposing unwanted labels and strict segregation.

And frankly, you're wrong about sex being binary, but you're clearly not willing to listen to anything that may contradict your rigid
worldview.

A man is a male human who has reached maturity. A woman is a female human in the same way. It's not hard.

The "labels" of "man" and "woman" literally only exist due to the existence of biological sex.

Yes that is my belief. Not sure where I claimed differently? Biological sex is the material thing, not my feminist beliefs about respect for women and girls.

Sex is binary.

Personalities are unlimited, highly individual and should know no bounds, except the sensible one of 'do no harm'

But many have been here before you trying to impune that mangled claptrap

This. So tired of the dishonest framing of GC feminist women's views.

A marriage is just a name for a union between a man and a woman with the intent to conceive children” – same thing

Biological sex is a material thing which can be observed in all species. Marriage is not. Are you really this obtuse?

Have you considered that your definition can simply be rejected by others?

I have, people believe all kinds of odd things. We started where you seemed to think I didn't have the right to simply reject the concept of "cis"?

“Why, in particular should Pride be celebrated by an employer any more than Eid?”

Plenty companies and organizations do acknowledge and celebrate Eid, especially on social media.

“Why is more emphasis not given to the truly marginalised people in society- ie the disabled?”

This is just an attempt at pitting marginalized groups against each other, yet another tactic frequently utilized by oppressors. Funny that you'd do it. Definitely doesn't say anything about you.

Fun fact: Many disabled people are also trans or otherwise queer.

Another fun fact: You can do both. They're not in opposition to each other. The inclusive, progressive, queer circles you hate sooo much, talk about accessibility aaall the time.

[quote SunniDelite]**@SamphiretheStickerist* Sometimes I just don't have the energy to T3RF (as in Tired of Explaining Reality to Fckwits )
But here"s a lovely version of Walk away Renee...

And when organisation are mandating pronouns and diversity training, our hypothetical religious conservative doesn't have the option of just quietly sitting it out.

Sex is binary.

Personalities are unlimited, highly individual and should know no bounds, except the sensible one of 'do no harm'

But many have been here before you trying to impune that mangled claptrap!

Typical dog whistle racism at play on this thread.

Pat yourselves on your back.
Job done for today

Anyway, it's funny. Centuries of literature on how manhood and womanhood are socially constructed, and then as soon as trans people become more visible in like 2015, bam, suddenly everything about the gender binary is just immutable biological reality, no malleability allowed.