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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Does anyone else cringe at the word "diversity"?

281 replies

SunniDelite · 26/02/2022 12:26

I had this email from someone on Crowdfunder...
"I am raising funds for the Lenny Henry Centre for Media Diversity at Birmingham City University.
In the last year, the centre has revealed the racism and prejudice actors face when they go auditions and, for the first time, exposed the lack of gender diversity of sound recordists. We're now building programmes to address this problem. So far, our research has highlighted specific problems for disabled people working in the industry and created more job opportunities for Black people behind the camera. Additionally, we are working with major broadcasters to change how they report on race, gender and disability."
I have no problem with the race and disability part, but what on earth does "lack of gender diversity of sound recordists" mean? That there aren't enough women? or that there aren't enough blue-hairs who can't decide what they are? or there aren't enough transwomen?
It's come to a point where I'm suspicious that any organisation that mentions diversity is a TRA, even if they're talking about hedgehog populations! :)

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 28/02/2022 14:18

@JellySaurus

I'm not big on conspiracy theories but it does seem like there is an effort to simplify the narrative to better suit certain people.

And not necessarily the people the narrative is claimed to suit.

Very much so. Or sometimes it is a specific group of people within the larger group. Adolph Reed talks about this a lot with regard to id politics in the US and the emergence of an educated black middle class, whose economic interests tend to be most aligned with other middle class people.
Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 14:18

@Ereshkigalangcleg

cis women

Who are these "cis women"? What about the ones who are neither trans nor "cis"?

"Cis" means "not trans", so you might as well talk about people are neither vaccinated nor unvaccinated.
Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 14:08

@DisappearingGirl

I agree. Whenever I see anything about diversity, inclusion and equality my heart sinks. Which is really sad as I always strongly believed in those values!

Ditto when someone says gender diversity, I don't know if they mean between men and women or between trans and non-trans.

Also when I see blue-haired teens it makes me sad, as I was one once and still have a lot of love for alternative scenes, but I can't help thinking they're probably into gender ideology.

Maybe I'm just getting old!!

“Ditto when someone says gender diversity, I don't know if they mean between men and women or between trans and non-trans.”

And why would the latter be a problem? Do you believe trans-identified people shouldn't be included in anything at all? That they should be completely ostracized from society?

Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 14:05

Rather telling on yourself, aren't you?

Diversity and inclusion are suddenly a bad thing now that you know it also includes that one minority group you're bigoted against...

VioletLemon · 28/02/2022 08:16

Not sure why but the post has changed my punctuation mark from : to a weird smiley face?? After white. That's not intentional.

VioletLemon · 28/02/2022 08:14

Lenny Henry alone triggers my blood pressure.

Unfortunately the word, 'diversity' now only brings to mind TWAW. Of course all groups need representation in the media as its a mirror of our culture and a massive influence on children's sense of who they are.

I feel that there is over representation of some groups in this industry.

The most recent Scottish census identified 1% of the population in Scotland as Afro Carribean, black groups, 2.7% as Asian, majority being Pakistani, 7.9%as white:other, Polish being the vast majority, Irish, Gypsy. 1% identified as mixed ethic groups, Arab & "other".

Media is so London centric that it has actually started to become non diverse, its not really representative atall.

Where are the Asian people, the poor working class white Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English people, non London based people?

Phobiaphobic · 28/02/2022 07:49

@AngeloMysterioso

Whenever I read the word “inclusive” (like I just did in the What’s On Stage Awards’ statement regarding changing the title of their awards to “performer in a male/female identifying role”) there is a little voice inside my head that just says oh, fuck off…
Are you me?
JellySaurus · 28/02/2022 07:04

I'm not big on conspiracy theories but it does seem like there is an effort to simplify the narrative to better suit certain people.

And not necessarily the people the narrative is claimed to suit.

AngeloMysterioso · 28/02/2022 04:58

Whenever I read the word “inclusive” (like I just did in the What’s On Stage Awards’ statement regarding changing the title of their awards to “performer in a male/female identifying role”) there is a little voice inside my head that just says oh, fuck off…

MangyInseam · 28/02/2022 02:52

One of the very unforunate things about some diversity schemes is that even when members of their targets groups are hired are absolutely the best people for the job, others are not sure. Sometimes the person hired is not sure.

ScholesPanda · 28/02/2022 01:36

@louderthan

My workplace is obsessed with diversity and what they mean is 'we need more token Black and Asian people working here'. What frustrates me is that we already have a diverse work force in terms of age, class, background, levels of education and previous employment experience and they don't appreciate, celebrate or make use of this diversity in any way. The nature of the profession (public sector, non-profit, relatively low paid but still very competitive) means that most of the senior management team are women but they are without exception white, highly educated and middle class.
DFOD with your token. BAME people are always accused of taking over or token representation. Maybe, they are just best for the job
1Week · 28/02/2022 01:22

It's richly ironic how certain forms of disadvantage are privileged over other, less fashionable disadvantages.

MangyInseam · 27/02/2022 23:27

@JellySaurus

I cringe at... *LGBTQ+ especially ‘an LGBTQ+ person’ *and ‘the LGBTQ+ community’

I wonder how many Lesbian women feel that they are part of the Trans community?

And BAME/BIPOC - especially a BAME person.

I'm a woman from a Minority Ethnic group, but I am not Black and I am not Asian. The challenges we face and the racism we experience are totally different.

It is lazy language. And really undiverse to lump groups of people together this way purely because they experience some form of vaguely related discrimination. Not sure how you would word it differently, though, without making every statement into a long, convoluted word-salad. Maybe not try to reduce everything into a pithy soundbite.

I think you would have to just talk about the problems and needs of specific groups within a specific context. Which is generally a good idea anyway because otherwise there is a significant tendency to resort to meaningless generalizations with no actionable elements.

There was an interesting thing a few weeks ago (or maybe longer) by Andrew Sullivan touching on this, on the desire to group disparate people together with the term "black and brown" people. He suggested it's in part related to the fact that in the US the demographic realities are so changed that there are various groups whose interests are not all the same. Which makes trying to talk about policy initiatives a lot more complicated if you are trying to push a certain perspective as good for minorities. Hence trying to get people used to thinking about all these different groups as somehow part of one thing.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories but it does seem like there is an effort to simplify the narrative to better suit certain people.

JellySaurus · 27/02/2022 23:05

I cringe at...
*LGBTQ+ especially ‘an LGBTQ+ person’
*and ‘the LGBTQ+ community’

I wonder how many Lesbian women feel that they are part of the Trans community?

And BAME/BIPOC - especially a BAME person.

I'm a woman from a Minority Ethnic group, but I am not Black and I am not Asian. The challenges we face and the racism we experience are totally different.

It is lazy language. And really undiverse to lump groups of people together this way purely because they experience some form of vaguely related discrimination. Not sure how you would word it differently, though, without making every statement into a long, convoluted word-salad. Maybe not try to reduce everything into a pithy soundbite.

Lovelyricepudding · 27/02/2022 22:52

Diversity seems to mean how many of a specific group there are. So a highly diverse school would be one with 99% of students from India, and a highly diverse civil servant department would be one with a lot of transwomen. And a group of people with neurodiversity means they are all autistic. The last thing it actually seems to mean is diversity!

Voice0fReason · 27/02/2022 22:38

@FrecklesMalone

I imagine you are white, straight and not disabled. For me diversity means a lot more than the single issue. In most places of work it is relevant still because 99% of my managers have been white and not disabled.
I'm disabled. Diversity rarely means anything to improve the lives or the representation of disabled people. I really do cringe at the word.
hopperrock · 27/02/2022 22:23

Similarly, a "cameraman" is someone with skill and judgement who uses his/her/their experience and artistic ability to add to the effect of the production. A "Camera operator" is a skivvy.

What a complete load of bollocks.

KittenKong · 27/02/2022 08:30

I read the D&I stuff from the very large form that someone I know works at. It was all about gender and stonewall points.

MangyInseam · 27/02/2022 03:46

My heart sinks when I see it these days too, because I know a wad of unmitigated shit is about to drop.

The problems being, one, that the diversity champion types seem to have a very narrow view of what counts as diversity and in some cases don't even seem to be aware of what kinds of diversity are missing. In an organization. I can go into a company or organization and they will be full of race or gender or sexual diversity, but they all have the same politics, the same religion, the same class background, all grew up in urban environments.

But what's worse is that they only seem to recognize one very narrow type of thinking about diversity initiatives, all based around identity. And somehow the only diverse voices they bring forward are the ones with the "correct" politics.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/02/2022 22:39

I cringe at
Diversity
LGBTQ+ especially ‘an LGBTQ+ person’
and ‘the LGBTQ+ community’
Intersectionality
Phobe - used to make someone feel guilty and be quiet
Hate which is now losing meaning

ScrollingLeaves · 26/02/2022 22:32

“JellySaurus

'Diversity' is one of those words which have a clear meaning, but have been misappropriated to mean whatever the loudest shouters want them to mean.

Other words misappropriated this way include

^Intersectional
Kind
Harmless
-phobia^

and, of course,

Woman.“

And appeal court judges in Scotland have just decided that sex can mean gender ( which can mean trans gender) on the 2022 Census

Rubidium · 26/02/2022 22:13

A big problem with identity politics is it rarely takes class into account.

Truthlikeness · 26/02/2022 21:44

At a meeting recently a female colleague from an ethnic minority was berated by a white male about his perception of the organisation's lack of diversity.

Melroses · 26/02/2022 21:21

I have been mispronouncing it as Divicity so have decided forthwith to stick with Divicity and Exclusion.

louderthan · 26/02/2022 21:06

My workplace is obsessed with diversity and what they mean is 'we need more token Black and Asian people working here'. What frustrates me is that we already have a diverse work force in terms of age, class, background, levels of education and previous employment experience and they don't appreciate, celebrate or make use of this diversity in any way. The nature of the profession (public sector, non-profit, relatively low paid but still very competitive) means that most of the senior management team are women but they are without exception white, highly educated and middle class.

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