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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Don’t bother applying for a job if you think people can’t change sex, NHS trust tells health official

532 replies

MidCenturyClegs · 25/02/2022 07:29

uk.news.yahoo.com/don-t-bother-applying-job-162233187.html

The wonderful Kate Grimes expressed interest in a non-exec position at the Tavi this year and was told to not waste her time as she holds gender critical beliefs. Peter Daly has been employed. Wow!

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2022 12:48

All questions worthy of an entire essay

Well you seem to have the time. If you could answer, why wouldn't you? If it's too "complicated", can you at least understand why people don't buy into your attempt to completely rewrite how we make sense of their world and our biological and social reality as women, and don't take kindly to be told what to think?

OldCrone · 01/03/2022 12:46

Nope, you are in no position to impose the label of "woman" on everyone you consider "female", if they do not wish to be designated by that label.

Likewise, you are in no position to restrict anyone from using that label, either.

You can call yourself anything you like @Lekisa658. You can call yourself a man, woman, child, donkey, unicorn. Whatever you like.

What you can't do is force other people to believe that you are what you say you are.

And you can't force other people to say they are what you say they are either.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2022 12:45

Nope, you are in no position to impose the label of "woman" on everyone you consider "female", if they do not wish to be designated by that label.

We have the right to reject your definition, when it affects our own rights and ability to advocate for ourselves as an oppressed class. Because we don't share your gender-based worldview.

Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:44

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And the existence of trans people shows that these categories are in fact often rejected.

Ah so you think it's completely by chance who is assigned correctly or not. Why are there so many more "cis people"? And where did the categories come from? Where is this "woman" idea from?

All questions worthy of an entire essay, which would be a waste of time since you would disregard all of it anyway.
Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:42

@OldCrone

The one and only thing "cis" implies is that you were designated female at birth, and call yourself a woman.

If you are female and an adult, you are a woman. Not a 'cis woman'. All women are female. 'Transwomen' are male, therefore they are not women.

Nope, you are in no position to impose the label of "woman" on everyone you consider "female", if they do not wish to be designated by that label.

Likewise, you are in no position to restrict anyone from using that label, either.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2022 12:42

And the existence of trans people shows that these categories are in fact often rejected.

Ah so you think it's completely by chance who is assigned correctly or not. Why are there so many more "cis people"? And where did the categories come from? Where is this "woman" idea from?

OldCrone · 01/03/2022 12:42

The only thing that's being observed is the genitals. The categories are assigned based on what genitals are observed.

The male and female categories?

NecessaryScene · 01/03/2022 12:41

Where did I advocate for such discrimination?

You insist that "women" gendered people should be kept apart from "men" gendered people.

So "transwomen" should not compete against "men" in sport, for example.

NecessaryScene · 01/03/2022 12:41

The categories themselves are made up by humans. And the existence of trans people shows that these categories are in fact often rejected.

What are you rejecting, exactly? If it's "made up", why not just change what it means?

Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:40

@NecessaryScene

“The form of discrimination I support is different from the other forms of discrimination, in that the form of discrimination I support is actually good, because it's the form of discrimination I support. ”

Coming from someone who advocates gender-based discrimination, for no obvious reason.

Where did I advocate for such discrimination?
Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:39

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The categories are assigned based on what genitals are observed.

Why are they generally "assigned" correctly? How is this knowledge gained to do this just by "observing the genitals"?

What do you mean "correctly"? The categories themselves are made up by humans. And the existence of trans people shows that these categories are in fact often rejected.
OldCrone · 01/03/2022 12:38

@AlisonDonut

You want to force trans women to conform to the role of a "man", no matter how miserable or suicidal it makes them.

Isn't the role of a man to, basically, be a sperm producer? Carry round a prostate? I mean, apart from being male, which is what makes a man, a man, is this whole 'role of a man' thing?

Genuinely confused as to your point. Are you saying that if a female transitions to be a man, then they cannot ever assume a role of a woman which basically means no trans man can ever gestate children?

Lekisa does seem to be advocating sterilisation for trans people in order to live in the 'role' of the opposite sex.
Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:38

*No one

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2022 12:38

The categories are assigned based on what genitals are observed.

Why are they generally "assigned" correctly? How is this knowledge gained to do this just by "observing the genitals"?

Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:37

@OldCrone

The one and only thing "cis" implies is that you were designated female at birth, and call yourself a woman.

If you are female and an adult, you are a woman. Not a 'cis woman'. All women are female. 'Transwomen' are male, therefore they are not women.

Not one has to abide by your bioessentialist terminology and definitions.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2022 12:36

A vaccine is a material thing. You take it or you don't. Gender identity ideology is not a material thing, it's a particularly biased worldview that I don't subscribe to.

Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:36

@fruitbat987

No baby is "designated" anything at birth. The sex of a baby is simply observed.
The only thing that's being observed is the genitals. The categories are assigned based on what genitals are observed.
OldCrone · 01/03/2022 12:36

The problem isn't about how you define yourselves, the problem is that you insist that it's you have a "right" to define and restrict others.

The one and only thing "cis" implies is that you were designated female at birth, and call yourself a woman.

Do you not see the contradiction here @Lekisa658?

You do not have a right to define me. I am not 'cis'.

NecessaryScene · 01/03/2022 12:35

“The form of discrimination I support is different from the other forms of discrimination, in that the form of discrimination I support is actually good, because it's the form of discrimination I support. ”

Coming from someone who advocates gender-based discrimination, for no obvious reason.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2022 12:35

if "cis" just meant not* trans

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2022 12:34

This is like not taking the Covid vaccine and asking for a label that is neither "vaccinated" nor "unvaccinated".

Yes, you said that already. It's nonsense, because if "cis" just meant trans, I wouldn't be required to buy into your ideological worldview, which I don't. A "trans woman" and a "cis woman" would both be of the sex which produces large gametes. Female.

OldCrone · 01/03/2022 12:34

The one and only thing "cis" implies is that you were designated female at birth, and call yourself a woman.

If you are female and an adult, you are a woman. Not a 'cis woman'. All women are female. 'Transwomen' are male, therefore they are not women.

Lekisa658 · 01/03/2022 12:34

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Here we go again with the back to front, inaccurate analogies.
“The form of discrimination I support is different from the other forms of discrimination, in that the form of discrimination I support is actually good, because it's the form of discrimination I support. ”
AlisonDonut · 01/03/2022 12:32

You want to force trans women to conform to the role of a "man", no matter how miserable or suicidal it makes them.

Isn't the role of a man to, basically, be a sperm producer? Carry round a prostate? I mean, apart from being male, which is what makes a man, a man, is this whole 'role of a man' thing?

Genuinely confused as to your point. Are you saying that if a female transitions to be a man, then they cannot ever assume a role of a woman which basically means no trans man can ever gestate children?

fruitbat987 · 01/03/2022 12:32

No baby is "designated" anything at birth. The sex of a baby is simply observed.