Don’t bother applying for a job if you think people can’t change sex, NHS trust tells health official

Women, of the class woman, are a subset of the class woman? How does that work?

Unless you are misunderstanding what classes and cohorts are!

Every woman is of the class woman.

No man forms any part of that class.

Tall women
Short women
Black women
Asian women
Blonde women
Women who can sing
Women who can knit
Women who like the colour purple.

All kinds of women.

All subsets of the class of woman whilst simultaneously being the ONLY cohort in that class.

Nothing you can say can change that.

Replace woman with cat, see how it goes when you try to insist that all cats are a subset of cat and that a giraffe is also a cat, because it wants to be!

I might have missed it but how does this all hold with the Forstater appeal decision? Given that GC views are a protected belief characteristic - is not employment discrimination to deny someone's application if they are known to hold that (protected) belief?

Anyone in that position would certainly be advised to take legal advice, as they may have a case. Especially when this Melanie woman actually said on the record that she was actively asking for information about personal beliefs that she doesn't have a right to know, in order to discriminate.

Saying "I am a woman" is identifying as a woman.

If an adult female human says 'I am a woman', she is stating a fact. This is nothing to do with 'identifying' as anything.

If an adult male human says 'I am a woman', he is lying.

I must confess that I'm finding myself mired in some of the more exuberant attempts at logic statements that are non-responsively scattered by some contributors. They manage, nonetheless, to have the menace of 1984 and O'Brien about them.

Not everyone you consider "female" is a woman, and some people you consider "female" are trans.

And second, trans women are women, and cis women (i.e. "natal", "biological", whatever) are not the only women.

@SamphiretheStickerist

identify

1. establish or indicate who or what (someone or something) is.

Saying "I am a woman" is identifying as a woman.

you are the ones arguing trans women should be excluded from everything to do with women on the basis of your prejudices against them.

No, just all males, regardless of gender identity, where necessary for women's privacy, dignity, safety, ability to participate on an equal footing with males in public life, and our political organisation as an oppressed class of people with many sex based needs.

It's not hard to understand but you keep misrepresenting my views. Why is that?

Agreed. It's just pigeon chess.

anyway

I might have missed it but how does this all hold with the Forstater appeal decision? Given that GC views are a protected belief characteristic - is not employment discrimination to deny someone's application if they are known to hold that (protected) belief?

You need to stop talking such twaddle.

Mostly though you need to stop telling women who they are and what they think what simultaneously telling them that they must respect what some men say they are.

Can you not see the ridiculous nature of your fatuous argument?

It is not unreasonable to be "prejudiced" against what has shown itself, time and timeagain, to be nothing but an anti-trans hate group.

Sadly male anger and male entitlement aren’t insults or name-calling, rather a recognition of a fundamental part of many of our lives.

Except you, inherently, ARE a subset. And I'll say it again.

Women aren't a subset of women though. FTM trans people and female non binary identitied people are a subset. Because women just means an adult human of the female sex. No more, no less. It literally has no meaning without the existence of the female sex. It's not a value judgement either negative or positive. It's not a value judgement on the cohort of males who are MTF or non binary either.

The constant personal attacks are coming rather thick and fast on these threads at the moment.

Careful wims.

Some posters are not able to come back with well structured and evidenced post so continue to resort to ad hom and some very personal attacks.

“Careful, now, your male anger is showing. And your male entitlement.”

Or, is it that some posters don't really have anything too add except their constant prejudiced posts that use false comparators and false analogies. That they realise that any longer posts that proffer nuanced thinking would not actually stand up to scrutiny and would lack statistics and evidence.

That is all they have.

Name calling, false analogies, false comparators, misrepresenting feminist perspective (and maybe even trans people's perspective from what we are assured by other trans people), demonisation and monstering.

I do hope they will return with some evidence to back up their endlessly empty claims. It will make for something out of the usual.

But I expect we will remain disappointed.

Yes I expect we will.

There's only one person on this thread who has stooped to calling people names. I'll give you a clue, it's not a woman.

And there's certainly one person spouting incoherent bullshit on this thread, and its not me.
You're the one who believes in the gender fairy.

Don't you have a flat earth meeting to go to? Off you pop.

But you know this and this whole thread is looking increasingly like pigeon tennis.

Careful, now, your male anger is showing. And your male entitlement.

So. Just more ad hominem attacks? No discussion about the many excellent points as to why people who don't believe that a person can change sex should be employed in senior positions in the Tavistock if they have the relevant skills.

And no discussion about the very fact that a NHS trust needs to be improving its health care on offer to trans people. Or that people who believe that sex cannot be changed are already working with trans people to provide a high standard of care.

Just personal attacks.

[quote Waitwhat23]@Lekisa658 you have, on this thread and on the many others you have posted upon, denied the very existence of same sex attraction. It's not me that's the appalling homophobe.

I'm a woman. Not a sub set of my own sex category. Stamp your feet as much as you like, women aren't up for you labelling them with a made up, nonsense term.

On the same side of" is a perfectly accurate description for your self-identification in relation to the category assigned at birth

Stamp, stamp, stamp.
.[/quote]
Agreed.
It always amazes me how much these people HATE women and everything we are, yet at the same time want to "identify" as them (whatever the hell that means).

It must be very confusing for them. Poor souls.