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Original poster

Transracial vs transgender

35 replies

samsalmon · 24/02/2022 11:47

Apologies if this has been covered here before.

I watched the Netflix doc The Rachel Divide on Rachel Dolezal. Very glad I did, there is so much more to her story than I realised, eg awful family background allegedly, the adopted siblings and so on. To this day, she is adamant about her identity, despite the fact that she has virtually no support and it has ruined her life.

As background, I am GC but open to all discussing all ideas, not white and have close friends who are trans identifying or have trans identifying kids. The difference, if any, between the concepts of transracial ( for want of a better term) and transgender if very interesting to me and I’m guessing that as the discussion on this is ongoing in the US, it will eventually reach us here.

The main opinion, certainly as expressed on the internet since the whole Rachel Dolezal affair is that transgender is ‘just how we are’ and that being transgender has a genetic component which is only just being discovered, therefore it’s all OK. On the other hand, race is a social construct that we should be rejecting, and identifying into a race is not acceptable (also as those in some races have no way of identifying out of their race).

I do find the whole notion of being born in the wrong body completely offensive and really very problematic, having said that, I do believe in bodily autonomy as a very fundamental principle. I come from a community where the majority of people are really proud to be who they are and we don’t as a group feel particularly held back. However, there are some, including a close family member, who would be tempted to change their race if they could, if there was a pill, they’d take it. I find that horrifying but that’s how they feel.

My brain is fried over this and I’d be glad to hear any thoughts, there are some really knowledgeable people on here. As I say, I think the discussion if headed our way. Alternatively, if this has been covered before, a pointer to the relevant thread would be appreciated! TIA.

OP posts:
viques · 24/02/2022 13:07

I would love to know more about this genetic component. How very convenient that would be, “See, you haters, it’s not my feelingz ,it’s my genez. “

ReeseWitherfork · 24/02/2022 13:06

When looking at gender vs sex, what's the race comparison? Is the thinking that race is to gender what, say, ethnicity is to sex? I don't really give a fuck what gender people identify as, but have some very strong feelings when people conflate gender with sex. So is it like saying people can "identify as black"?

ScrollingLeaves · 24/02/2022 13:01

Sorry that got muddled. I meant say: there is surely a genetic component to what colour you are born even if any judgements and assumptions based on colour are just constructed by society.

AlexaShutUp · 24/02/2022 12:58

I also see no difference in the two concepts, and I have yet to see anyone successfully argue why people should be able to identify as any gender but not as any race. It seems to me that, logically, you have to accept both or neither.

ScrollingLeaves · 24/02/2022 12:57

What is the ‘genetic component’ to being transgender that is only just being discovered?

There is surely a genetic component to what colour you born are even any judgements and assumptions around that are social concepts.

Original poster
samsalmon · 24/02/2022 12:54

Thanks to you all for engaging, btw.

OP posts:
Original poster
samsalmon · 24/02/2022 12:53

My own instinct too is that there is no difference, it’s where my brain goes as a non-white person. What I’m shocked by is how far this debate has got in the US and how entrenched that position is - transgender great and ok, transracial totally unacceptable and offensive. How have they got that far if both gender and race are a social construct? Are we ready to be clear about this when the debate reaches these shores on the same scale?

What interests me also is the almost complete lack of language to describe the transgender and transracial person (aka race faker in the US). We have seen how the definitions of woman become circular, ‘a woman is anyone who says they are a woman’. Insert any other word instead of ‘woman’ and the thing is a nonsense. There is literally no attempt whatsoever to attach any defining features, characteristics etc. From that position, it’s not possible to either have any discussion or make any coherent laws. It’s crazy. Watching Rachel Dolezal being interviewed on panel shows, it’s the same. She feels black but has no other words to take the discussion further. How is this possible? We can discuss the most abstract concepts, anything at all including the existence of God, we can put language to it, but not this. No language means no discussion so where do we go?

Sorry that was a digression from the race vs gender topic. I agree about the working backwards things to justify. On a basic level, I wonder where the hordes of suicidal closeted trans kids were when I was growing up in the 80s.

OP posts:
NecessaryScene · 24/02/2022 12:37

There's no consistent logic here - it's just people working backwards to create a justification for the already-position held by their peer group.

And the different positions require different arguments, or things to be just made up (like "a genetic component which is only just being discovered").

What's acceptable and what isn't - that's a social construct.

Pixiedust1234 · 24/02/2022 12:34

Gender is a social construct too. No difference imo. As pp said, it won't be long before people identity as a certain animal.....oh wait..thats happening now albeit in the fetishism circles

VelvetChairGirl · 24/02/2022 12:13

but gender is a social construct invented by John Money in the 1940s.

and what is a gender stereotype varies between cultures, race is also about cultures not just physical appearance.

I see zero difference, if you accept one you must accept the other and then go further accepting those who think their trats align with certain animals more then humans and want to be those animals.

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