Non binary camp councelor shares cabin with fifth grade girls (Calefornia)

It’s testing the water isn’t it. We’ve seen it for millennia. What can I get away with, what reaction will I get, what power do you really have... prod prod prod

Definitely dodgy, especially as many 11 year old girls will be menstruating and will be developing breasts etc.

Apologies 334bu
That should read:
Really not sure what they're doing as a school governor if they're openly arguing that random adult males should be sleeping alongside other people's 10 and 11 year old daughters

(still sounds equally dodgy tho).

Is fifth grade not for children 10/11 years old?

That person is in the Lib Dems. And we know their abysmal track record about safeguarding and children. Really not sure what they're doing as a school governor if they're openly arguing that random adult males should be sleeping alongside other people's 9 and 10 year old daughters.

Really? Oh God, I thought school governors at least were a sensible cohort...

What is worse, is that the person who tweeted that is not only a Councillor but also a school governor. The mind boggles.

Am I reading this right? It's fine because none of the girls were attacked or harmed?

twitter.com/PrueBray/status/1496196165842444295?s=20&t=3gN9CCXHPfk6vztGjhZIdQ

I'd suppose it would simple be something like there weren't any non-binary students or something, thus allowing for an extra teacher available to go in another cabin! Not that hard to understand really, is it?

So female non binary students would be fine in your eyes to have male non binary males sleeping in their cabin too?

Do you understand safeguarding at all?

explained

I'd suppose it would simple be something like there weren't any non-binary students or something, thus allowing for an extra teacher available to go in another cabin! Not that hard to understand really, is it?

Pure serendipity that a male person got to share with 11 year old girls. Of course it was!

Welcome to Mumsnet JuneGreen. Please tell us why you are so keen for adult born males to share sleeping accommodation with 9 and 10 year old girls as the rationale escapes decent people?

JuneGreen, I think the question was more 'Why does this non-binary teacher choose to go in with the girls not the boys?'

[quote Xoxoxoxoxoxox]Girls sent to a science camp were housed insleeping quarters with non binary male councelors, the camp says that they house residents by gender identity.
Parents were only informed when they returned from the trip.

So how does being non-binary get this teacher housed with the girls?

midvalleynews.com/non-binary-biological-male-counselors-allowed-to-sleep-in-fifth-grade-girls-cabins-at-science-camp/[/quote]
Even a female teacher could be a danger to children, it just depends on the person doesn't it? Every professional coming into contact with children has to go through the right checks to make sure they're not a risk. I'm sure this teacher is a lovely person and is simply doing their job. So i'm sure you have nothing to worry about here!

Not even teenagers. About 11. What sort of man? A nonce.

What kind of grown ass adult male feels 'most comfortable' sleeping in with teenage girls? What kind of adult male 'identifies most closely' with that?

Men who want to sleep in rooms with young girls are quite aware of what sex is.

If you were a male sex offender and wanted an opportunity to sleep in the same room as young girls, this would be perfect wouldn't it? Just say you feel more comfortable sleeping in with the girls.

It's fucking wide open!!!

How can anyone not see this?

One way to keep things available to girls is surely for someone to set up e.g. a girl's camp & only employ women. They wouldn't say so in the job ads, they'd just reject any men who applied, without ever saying that's why. They'd either not give a reason or find some other reason for the rejection.

That's what I planned to do, about 20 years ago, when I was part of the interview & recruitment panel for a rape crisis centre for women & girls. I heard on the news about a Canadian who was rejected as a women's RCC worker, & I thought, 'Just don't give the real reason why they were rejected. It's obvious!'.

This may be against fairness or even employment/discrimination law, but I bet it happens all the time in terms of race or class, etc.

While lots of US summer camps have [junior] counsellor positions for U18s, the camp in question here only employs counsellors (SPECIALIST ones, at that, because they are ✨fancy✨ while abandoning all common sense) aged 18 & over; while campers are aged 8-16.

Cabins sleep (up to) 10 children - plus 2 counsellors to supervise. Often when counsellors share a cabin with campers they have their own room within the cabin rather than sharing the main room that the campers do. I can’t tell from the info about this Camp if that’s the case or not though - nor what the bathroom arrangements are. Of course, in this case, said set-up would raise serious questions about expecting a woman to share a small space with a non-binary male. (However, if our NBM counsellor just chances to have a female partner who is ALSO a counsellor at the camp, it might explain much… )

It’s almost as if they have a vague memory of how safeguarding is meant to work:
“• Bunking is gender and age appropriate. Cabin groups will not have campers aged more than one year apart, though they may encompass more than one grade level.
• For programming reasons, campers aged 12 and under are not put in cabins with campers aged 13 and older. This allows us to run different activities appropriate for younger or older campers.
• If a 13-year-old wishes to be bunked with a 12-year-old, they’ll be bunked in the younger cabin. Rules pertaining to campers 12 and under will apply to them.”

The staff allocation wasn’t “gender appropriate”, though, unless all the children in that cabin identified as non-binary. I mean, in the real world it wasn’t appropriate full-stop; & someone should have asked some serious questions about why an AMAB enby thought THAT cabin was where they should be (because if it was “so I can have sex with my girlfriend” that’s still totally inappropriate, just less horrific than other possibilities). Moreover, how can they possibly provide “appropriate” accommodation for near-infinite genders? It’s a total nonsense.

Their website also mentions having campers from abroad - & the website offers information in Spanish, French & Russian for parents of [prospective] international campers. Yes, Russia. That bastion of LGBT - & indeed women’s - rights. And leaving that aside, when you have proverbs about intelligent women showing the cleverness of their fathers; & one good daughter being worth seven sons - if they want their Russian clients to not only yank their daughters out but also kick up an almighty fuss & spread the word that your camp is not a safe place for girls they’re going the right way about it.

(Am sure I had other thoughts, but this has already taken too long to write & when I fall asleep while writing posts they are not improved. Also probably the fewer of my words the better on this because )

In Scouts (in the UK) I believe they have a hard rule of no under-18s sharing sleeping accommodation with over-18s. My friend's daughter was laughing about how one of the other Scouts happened to have his 18th birthday in the middle of a trip, so had to change tents that night. I'm not sure whether the 18-year-olds were in with the adult leaders or not.

I can sort of understand, though, that somewhere else might have a culture that it is negligent to have kids sleeping without an adult in the cabin. Maybe they'd worry that it would be too easy for kids to sneak out otherwise. If that was standard, you could even have the adults' beds by the door, but with partial screening between them and the kids' beds.

But WHY ON EARTH would being non binary mean that male adults should be put in with female children? Even if all the rules are based on gender identity? Unless this was a cabin of girls who all called themselves non binary- but if so, surely that would be reported in the article? Crazy.

Normally IntermittentParps we tell parents about the general sleeping arrangements as you suggest (by letter and often in a pre meeting for parents) but I can't recall any school needing to specify that sleeping / washing accommodation will be single sex as of course, it was never an issue. Schools just don't arrange mixed sex sleeping for school children - and if they did there'd be an uproar.

Now of course, in upside down world, there's so much denial and fantasy language about self identifying and rights that of course, these are issues. I know of one school (several years ago) where a trip was cancelled after the parents of a trans boy insisted that they must be allowed to share a bedroom with 3 boys. The schools said no, the parent called in one of the bullying lobby groups to threaten and as a result, all the teachers refused to go with the result that the trip was cancelled.