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Grace Lavery & Helen Joyce debate 1/4/2022 It is real

307 replies

highame · 19/02/2022 09:15

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1494746862158553088

It is real apparently. Hosted by Unheard

OP posts:
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19
GertrudeKerfuffle · 19/02/2022 21:38

@Cwenthryth

Sorry, screenshot
And Grace Lavery - who I've had to look up - is an actual professor, at Berkeley, which is a real and respected university, actually comes out with stuff like this publicly? Jesus Christ.
DomesticatedZombie · 19/02/2022 21:27

Definitely. Maybe even knitting.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/02/2022 21:16

@DomesticatedZombie

Oh, fantastic. I'm trans. Non-binary cis trans. I'll be on that zoom, Grace!
Acceptance without exception and all that.

Are you going to sit there in a cardigan eating biscuits and drinking tea?

DomesticatedZombie · 19/02/2022 21:12

@RoyalCorgi

She also says there is a well known gender critical activist helping her prepare. Apparently this woman is terrified of her own 'side' and is keeping it hush.

It's understandable. Gender-critical feminists are scary as fuck. We have ribbons and everything.

I'm particularly terrifying because I have VELCRO.
DomesticatedZombie · 19/02/2022 21:12

Oh, fantastic. I'm trans. Non-binary cis trans. I'll be on that zoom, Grace!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/02/2022 21:06

I think Lavery is struggling between their own ego and need to be seen, and losing the support of UK MRAs who are reminding Lavery that it is supposed to be "No debate"

Cwenthryth · 19/02/2022 20:56

Is it just me, or does this read like Grace laying the groundwork for backing out already

Grace Lavery & Helen Joyce debate 1/4/2022 It is real
RoyalCorgi · 19/02/2022 20:09

She also says there is a well known gender critical activist helping her prepare. Apparently this woman is terrified of her own 'side' and is keeping it hush.

It's understandable. Gender-critical feminists are scary as fuck. We have ribbons and everything.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 19/02/2022 20:03

@lovelyweathertoday

But grace is also saying helen and the other gc debater are 'fascists' and telling trans people not to attend to support her because of the harm they will be exposed to.

Oh I can see the narrative already. The GC women who are desperate for this to be debated in public will turn up. Lavery doesn't want any supporters there so Lavery will be able to claim a scary, bullying atmosphere and that Lavery was the most vulnerable minority being bullied?

Is that it?

I am torn between wanting to see this issue openly debated and wanting to support Helen and not wanting to treat Lavery with undeserved importance.

I think you might be absolutely right- I might save your post and see if it comes true before 1st April!
MsGoodenough · 19/02/2022 20:02

I've bought a ticket for the zoom. Can't wait!

Hasselhoffsheadband · 19/02/2022 20:01

Katy has already backed out of a debate. Only prepared to talk to GC people on their YouTube show.

Katy would get absolutely roasted in any sort of proper, intellectual debate with someone like Helen Joyce. Katy spreads misinformation, misses out/glosses over key points and is generally pretty disingenuous. Katy is much more suited to an Owen Jones podcast, where he will just fawn and nod along.

I am very interested in this debate with Grace Lavery. #nodebate is history, bring it on!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/02/2022 19:58

I looked for a thread here on the Mess debate. It was insane, but ultimately reassuring because Aaron had no arguments of substance whatsoever, and was so clearly arguing in bad faith

I'm rolling my eyes that they invited him on and gave him further opportunity to do this, after his completely good faith, well reasoned debate recently.

IdentifyingAsAPrincess · 19/02/2022 19:14

@DidoDino

I can't get enthusiastic about debating the 'gender wars' with a man. We don't need debate; we need our rights respected and upheld. And the voices we need to amplify are those of women.
Yes I’m sure Helen said that herself, that we need to speak around these people because reasoning is not possible.
Phobiaphobic · 19/02/2022 18:48

I looked for a thread here on the Mess debate. It was insane, but ultimately reassuring because Aaron had no arguments of substance whatsoever, and was so clearly arguing in bad faith.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 19/02/2022 17:05

I'd love to see this live - watching a public evisceration by wit and science is appealing.

It should be held in a coliseum, really.

ScreamingMeMe · 19/02/2022 16:20

I don't think Lavery will cancel. I think Lavery is over confident.

Scraggythang · 19/02/2022 15:12

If Lavery doesn’t cancel I’ll eat my hat.

DomesticatedZombie · 19/02/2022 13:53

But grace is also saying helen and the other gc debater are 'fascists' and telling trans people not to attend to support her because of the harm they will be exposed to

Confused
DomesticatedZombie · 19/02/2022 13:52

@Cwenthryth

Sorry, screenshot
wtf?
ScreamingMeMe · 19/02/2022 13:20

@Dobedodo

Katy monty might do it.
Katy has already backed out of a debate. Only prepared to talk to GC people on their YouTube show.
TheGreatATuin · 19/02/2022 13:02

Apparently this woman is terrified of her own 'side' and is keeping it hush. I think it is great that a gc person is helping her prepare.

My guess is this person is of the same cloth as the occasional ex-GC people who crop up every now and then to publicly repent and say how terrible GC people are while mysteriously not mentioning or refuting a single gender critical argument.
It's quite an accomplishment to be 'ex' something when you don't actually know what it is

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/02/2022 12:49

@lovelyweathertoday

I think it's hilarious that Lavery is claiming a gender critical woman is helping Lavery prepare. I don't believe it for a second.
Obviously not a "well known gender critical activist" who has received death/rape/assault threats for stating biological givens. I thought that was run of the mill for GC activists with scarcely any profile never mind a "well known" one. Hmm

It's almost as if there's something off about this account. I assume this open-minded debate-prep buddy is fine with Lavery's proposed use of porn as preparation?

Gumbomambo · 19/02/2022 12:46

I really hope it goes well, Helen seems to very cool, calm and collected, she will also be very well researched and be prepared and wouldn’t stoop to personal digs. Grace is a bit of a loose cannon and often seems to do things for the shock value but at least they want to meet up, Im a bit worried about the content and tone of those tweets. I won’t be able to go but will definitely try to watch online.

DidoDino · 19/02/2022 12:45

I can't get enthusiastic about debating the 'gender wars' with a man. We don't need debate; we need our rights respected and upheld. And the voices we need to amplify are those of women.

lovelyweathertoday · 19/02/2022 12:44

I think it's hilarious that Lavery is claiming a gender critical woman is helping Lavery prepare. I don't believe it for a second.