The Times 11/2/22 Women-only carriages ‘would make ScotRail trains safer’

Why don't we introduce a system to keep women safe at all times, maybe make sure they only access public spaces in the company of a male family member for example...

The Guardian article I found mentioned India, Japan, UAE, Iran.

I don't think we should be copying countries with appalling human rights records for women.

As I said the women only carriages work well in other countries.

Which countries do they "work well" in?

Yeah it’s weird Scottish government saying that women and girls are unsafe on the trains because of mens violence

But any man could say the6 are a women and come into our changing rooms, toilets women only compartments

So what is the threats to women on trains and how can the threats be identified?
Yeah they are trolling us Idiots the whole lot of SG

I wish there was another, better world for women and children to inhabit. - a world where we could move around freely and without fear of sexual assault, rape or being attacked. In my ideal world, men would treat women, not as targets, but actual fellow humans. Where did society go so very wrong that women and girls are living in ever increasing fear of violence both outside and inside our homes?

And yet when in a women's prison, a man doesn't pose a risk because he's said he is a woman in order to get in there.

Sorry for stating the blindingly obvious. They're thick as mince.

In the days of compartment stock (often with no corridor), "Ladies' compartments" made sense. You were stuck in a small space with strangers and no way out. Could be very dangerous for a lone woman (one ended up clinging to the outside of a train to escape a predator). Even so, they weren't that well used - more often by mothers/nurses with children than other women. With corridor stock and later open saloons there was no real need anymore as you weren't trapped in a confined space. They were seldom used by the time BR abolished them.

Much better to ensure that trains are well staffed, providing a visible presence. Sadly many trains just have a driver working alone. The government is hell-bent on cutting back front line staff.

As I said the women only carriages work well in other countries.for sure it would be great if we could trust men to behave , to not intrude on women travelling, but I see no evidence that this is happening . So half the train for women , half for men seems fair with some allocated for families. The best travelling for women in Delhi for example, is in the women only carriage where there is definitely a sense of relief, safety and solidarity. In other places the middle section is made a safer space for women...not quite as satisfactory, but men are literally shown the door.

It’s a bit odd to argue for female only train carriages for safety reasons and yet argue against female only loos as if safety no longer matters. I would argue the opposite- female loos but mixed sexed carriages.
I agree with the pp who said the existence of a female only carriage makes the other carriages less safe

“To be forced to share a carriage when they feel threatened or frightened is unfair on women,”
Unless it's while showering or changing then it's totally fine
Or more probably what that means is “To be forced to share a carriage when they feel threatened or frightened is unfair on anyone who has their gas bill in a typically female name,”

Thick as pigshit & twice as dangerous

I honestly think the Scottish Government are trolling us.

It's almost like they want to be YES men without thinking anything all the way through.

Women only spaces - yeah!
Men can be women - yeah!
Covid needs ventilation cut the doors!
What about Fire - it doesn't matter!

The women are up there with the doors! I never thought I'd be liking myself to a door.

The dumbest of the dumb and the most dangerous of the dangerous 😤 Just how much do they hate women?

Once you have self ID every single place and space is mixed sex. All of them. There can be no "women only" anything.

Scottish Government - dumbest of the dumb.

Whats with all the cloak and dagger stuff. Say the name 'man from well known band' very good you've just put suspicion onto every male musician.

There has to be a better way to deal with this like not booking the men who are causing the issue. Or tell them outright to back off.

It's so crazy they can see predatory males exist and yet in the areas where segregation really does matter just dawn a frock and your in there.

And yes, the irony of it being in Scotland of all places that this is being considered is heavy.

So Scottish ministers don't think that women in states of undress should be allowed separate spaces to keep then safe from men? But fully-clad women in public spaces ARE apparently at risk??

How do they square that circle then? Women wearing clothes in public places might be in danger but magically as soon as they remove clothing or go to the toilet, any sex pests lose interest??!

Logic not the strong point of whoever came up with this scheme then.

I assume all the accessible carriages would have to be mixed by default?

Possibly, just putting this out there, rather than resolving the inevitable issues, it would be cheaper to employ train guards and give them powers to ensure the comfort and safety of their passengers?

There is also this in the Times Scotland today, about guardians being assigned to female folk musicians to protect them from predatory males:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7366c3c-8b58-11ec-a837-0153f5f4adaf?shareToken=dbf4d888b2493015578505e16ebf7ee2

Actually you’d need more than half the train for women only - because guess where all the children will be…

Thank you for the share token link - is there something about how share tokens work that hides the comments section from non-subscribers? I can't find a link to the comments which sound fun to read.

I agree with PP that sequestering women away in a ladies section is regressive. It defines public space as primarily for males. Instead there should be a carriage, on trains with 4 or more coaches, that are less comfortable (wooden/plastic benches rather than upholstered chairs) and anyone who is drunk or rowdy of either sex is obliged to use that coach, leaving the general public areas for people of either sex who are able to behave in a civilised and mutually respectful manner.

Obviously this won't happen as it puts the onus and consequences onto men, where it belongs, so obviously that can't be allowed.

So apartheid basically? How fecking progressive 🤬

This is a rubbish idea. We should not be forcing women into a few segregated spaces in public. We should be policing public spaces so that abusive men committing crimes in public spaces are caught and removed/arrested.

It's not comparable to changing rooms or toilets, where women are in a state of undress and so explicitly vulnerable to sexual crime, and so male/female separation makes sense. Or prisons where women cannot get away from abusive men.

The problem with the idea of 'female carriages' is it posits the male again as normal, the default human, with no 'male' carriages being proposed. It would further the idea of public spaces being seen as basically only for men, except in a very few specified 'female carriages'. Unless half the train were 'female carriages' ie male and female separation throughout the train, it would still leave most women sitting in what were now effective 'male' spaces and leave them more open to attack, as they would be seen as having chosen not to sit in the 'female carriage' so fair game. And of course separation of male and female throughout the train would make it impossible for couples, families or friends to sit together if of the opposite sex, which would clearly be ridiculous.

What next? Women being allocated a smal segregated corner of a park because there are flashers in parks? No. Catch the bloody flashers. Problem solved.

Actually, maybe women should just stay at home, that way they’ll be safe. Oh, hang on…