What is the difference between gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia?

I don't get why it's not an illness when they expect the NHS to fund whatever they want. It must be an illness.

We all know it's a mental illness though, don't we? We know they need intensive talking therapy before anything else.

This is exactly what I was thinking about yesterday following the thread on a 5/6 year old child being called transphobic because they were confused about a classmate who was apparently trans or non-binary or something. (And obvioulsy being 'supported' in their status)

The fixation on statements about gender made by very young children and treating them as an unchangeable fact is extememly worrying. If children say they are a cat or a dog or princess darth vader, it is not seized upon in the same way.

pitt.substack.com/p/to-my-daughters-therapist-you-were
“I asked what it was specifically about my daughter that convinced you that medical transition would be the right course of action to relieve her distress. You said, “He has Gender Dysphoria.” I said, “She has an eating disorder, body dysmorphia, and ADHD, all of which seem to have some overlapping features with Gender Dysphoria. Why wouldn’t you assess for and treat those before triggering any kind of medical intervention?”

Also enjoying the accuracy of the term immersive fiction which I haven't heard before.

Kathleen Stock's coinage in Material Girls iirc.

I have no idea, and when I asked the same in regards to those nullos all of the posts were deleted.

Massive social attempts to change 'woman' into something they can become

Boom.
That's exactly what all of this bullshit charade is about.

Also enjoying the accuracy of the term immersive fiction which I haven't heard before.

aggressive need to tell women that they 'identify' as women so they can be the same in that identification. No attempts to listen to women saying we really don't identify as women. Massive social attempts to change 'woman' into something they can become as they have decided that this is the way to address their discontent and distress.

You've expressed that so clearly that it's very helpful because I hadn't seen that connection before.

This is a really long article about people who want to remove limbs or digits, become deaf or blind or paralysed. Whichever way I look at it I just cannot understand how or why this is any different to people who think they are the opposite sex, or why the hell the treatment is so different

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/

They tell themselves they will 'pass' as the opposite sex once they've had surgery for it and raise the funds for it. Then, they find another area that doesn't match up to how they want to look, and the cycle repeats.

The immersive fiction constantly needs shoring up with technical, social and legal fixes—none of these will ever be sufficient.

Very little. Dysmorphia and dysphoria are both seen in the superior temporal sulcus as a dysfunction.

Which means anorexia, body dysmorphic disorder and gender dysphoria.

This precise question was what made me snapped out of the affirmative narrative used for gender dysphoria.

I suffered from anorexia. I used to hate my body and would have anxiety/panic attacks when trying to buy clothes for example. I knew I was ill. No one in their right mind whould have told me that I had to be my true skninny self.

I believe there are no real differences between these conditions. This needs to be talked about more.

We treat one like the delusional mental illness it is but the other we don't. If a body dysmorphic patient says their perfectly normal nose is disgusting we treat the delusion and recognise surgery is not the answer and yet with gender dysmorphia the medical establishment buys into the delusion? It doesn't make sense.

But when I listen to transitioners and detransitioners directly, I see a pattern in which the anxiety and distress persists, and the sufferer searches for a different bodypart that needs to be 'fixed' to blame their distress on. They tell themselves they will 'pass' as the opposite sex once they've had surgery for it and raise the funds for it. Then, they find another area that doesn't match up to how they want to look, and the cycle repeats.

I don't think it's just stonewall's campaigning which has led to this catastrophe. I think they were knocking on an open door of misogynists feeling threatened at women no longer being in their place enough though stonewall do also have a lot of blood on their hands.

@VelvetChairGirl it's not called dysmorphia / a mental health Condition though; that's the point.

the fact its called dysmorphia in the first place shows its a mental condition and we dont treat any other mental condition with affirmation.

compare gender dysmorphia with racial dysmorphia and just look at the contrast in the way people are treated by the public for those two its like chalk and cheese, one is all "be kind" the other is rip you a new one.

I think the simple answer is the difference is stonewall campaigning.

I listened to the Nolan Investigates Stonewall - I loved episode 5- Dr David Bell who was a psychiatrist at GIDS/ Tavistock (now retired and was a whistle blower). He talks so rationally about body dysphoria- definitely worth a listen! He talks about the need for exploring underlying reasons and when asked if he has ever in his long career ever seen a patient who has only presented with gender dysphoria without any other underlying issues- his answer was no. He talks about gender dysphoria very much as a body dysphoria- a dysphoria with your sexual body. But don't take my word for it - have a listen. Link below

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09yjmph

@ExtraPlinky
“If someone wanted to lose weight from a size 12 to a size 8, wouldn't surgery make them happy? Why isn't that available on the NHS and if they said they were suicidal what would happen?“

I do think a lot of teenage girls especially fall into deep depression and suicidal thoughts over issues with weight and dieting.

In one case the feeling is more important than the fact.

In the other, the fact is more important than the feeling.

How the importance became attributed depended on which demographic originated the feeling.

The spread is the same, initial demographic, follow-up teenage social contagion then fashion statement in the adults.

I've thought about this quite a lot. I'm not sure I'm any closer to a logical reason why the two would be treated so differently but the more gender ideology seems to take hold the more surgical innovations there seem to be.

The alterations many people with body dysmorphia want would rely on tried and tested surgical techniques and so there is little to learn from a surgical point of view by actually performing surgery on them.

I'm left thinking that once upon a time a doctor thought he could do a surgical experiment on a patient with gender dysphoria and to make a name for himself and then other doctors noticed you could do surgery on patients with GD that you wouldn't get away with otherwise and so we've ended up with a wild west surgical speciality with endocrinology jumping on the band wagon. Dr yeet the teet spoke with a sort of gleeful reverence about "Frankenstein" surgery she had witnessed which sparked her interest in the area.

I'm not convinced many of the doctors involved actually believe their methods are the most appropriate treatment for GD but what a way to get a cohort of patients to study who willingly consent to a combination of medication and surgery which have not been thoroughly researched. So many opportunities to make yourself rich and lauded for being a pioneer. Some will have a surgical technique named after them.

Obviously, I'm am very cynical.

Totally agree OP.

The issue is that the perfectly normal feelings of being uncomfortable about changing bodies during puberty are being treated as something that needs to be cured or medicated.