Tony Blair in The Times today

[quote ScreamingMeMe]Looks like Sir Keir is a fan. Wonder if that means he'll listen to him?

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer told ITV’s Good Morning Britain: “I don’t think it’s a thorny issue for me at all. Tony Blair deserves the honour, he won three elections, he was a very successful Prime Minister.

“I haven’t got time this morning to list all of his many achievements which I think vastly improved our country.

“The one I would pick out in particular would be the work he did in Northern Ireland and the peace process and the huge change that has made.”

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tony-blair-backlash-knighthood-controversy-b982224.html?amp[/quote]
Starmer might respect Blair but he is not a talented politician like Tony and is also unlikely to have the courage to face down the trans lobby even if he personally think they're saying nonsense.

Looks like Sir Keir is a fan. Wonder if that means he'll listen to him?

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer told ITV’s Good Morning Britain: “I don’t think it’s a thorny issue for me at all. Tony Blair deserves the honour, he won three elections, he was a very successful Prime Minister.

“I haven’t got time this morning to list all of his many achievements which I think vastly improved our country.

“The one I would pick out in particular would be the work he did in Northern Ireland and the peace process and the huge change that has made.”

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tony-blair-backlash-knighthood-controversy-b982224.html?amp

So the sub-prime mortgage boom that started in the US had no influence on anything that happened here? RBS, Barclays and the rest of the reckless bankers — they weren't at all influenced by what was going on across the pond?

Influenced, yes. As far as I am aware the banks in the US were the first to start selling on mortgage debt in CDOs, but the UK banks weren't compelled to do the same. And it all happened under a Labour government which failed to take any action to stop it.

@SukiPook, I think his role in Northern Ireland is often overlooked. It was really incredibly significant at the time.

We’ve been in a bubble for 20 years. Nominal prices are now way beyond their 2007 peak as these graphs show.

The previous peaks were not “cyclical” rises and falls but prior bubbles - a brief one in 1973 ended by the oil crisis and the first major one at the end of the 80s was killed off by a jump in mortgage rates.

Interest rates fell in the late 90s and then BoE cut them to a then historic low in 2003 which started the current bubble.

It’s true that the 2007 bubble reached a historic high of 8.4 (house price to earnings ratio) but it was fuelled by low mortgage rates as well as reckless lending by banks + mortgage companies.

In response to the crisis BoE cut interest rates to new historic lows (where they have remained since) and started QE in 2009. The latter arguably saved the economy from falling into an even deeper recession.

The corollary record low mortgage rates have sustained the bubble long since Brown left the building.

Look at that housing bubble back in the 80s, just like I said. All Thatcher's doing.

I never said otherwise.

I really don't know why people still believe that the financial crisis was caused by the Labour government!

I didn't say that.

I'm not interested in getting into a bog debate about Brown's management of the economy really. This thread is about Labour and identity politics.

Suffice it to say I don't rate him, feel it was somewhat a case of kicking the can further down the road and had the intended-or-not consequence of a massive house price bubble that hasn't really popped.

Increases in UK house prices were caused by 'what was happening at that time in the US'? Is that what you believe?

Sure, the one leading up to 2008-9 was under Labour but was also part of a global phenomenon at least partly caused by out-of-control markets beyond UK control. Look at what was happening at that time in the US in particular. To blame it entirely on Labour would be unfair.

Look at that housing bubble back in the 80s, just like I said. All Thatcher's doing.

And the one in the early 2000s?

Look at that housing bubble back in the 80s, just like I said. All Thatcher's doing.

Brown used QE as a way out of a global collapse and has been widely credited by politicians and economists around the world for having saved us from the worst consequences of the bust. I think someone upthread has already said that he's much more appreciated abroad than at home.

Could you be any more patronising? Or incorrect. House prices had cyclical rises and falls until Brown fcked about with QE and the BOE kept interest rates low.

Anyway this is way off topic.

I've bought and sold a number of properties since but have never known a housing bubble like that. But let's blame Labour!

I guess we don't get taught economics at school.

I also partly agree about T. Blair.

He's always given me the creeps but his administration was certainly the best government of my adult life. Bar Iraq - he would have gone down as very successful PM. However an illegal war is fairly mahoosive fuck up.

Disagree about Brown: his tinkering with the financial system caused the biggest housing bubble in history and has priced out so many younger people (yes I know subsequent governments have done nothing to resolve this.)

The housing bubble a. went back to the 80s and b. was international. I really don't know why people still believe that the financial crisis was caused by the Labour government!

Brown and Darling actually did a really good job of sorting it out.

Leo's words can be interpreted in two ways: was he observing feelz trump facts in the post-Trump world - ie it's not right but it's how it is, or was he in earnest.

Could be either.

As I said earlier - to take it at face value - if feelings are more important than facts - ok - women's feelings are important then and women are not happy.

The issue is really that men's feelz are more important than women's feelz.

That thing about Leo Blair noting that "There are feelings and there are facts, but right now feelings are more important." absolutely screamed out at me.

Whose bloody feelings? Whose feelings are more important than facts?

Not women's, obviously. Our feelings just don't even come into it.

It's actually staggering that anyone can make a statement like that and just have it left there hanging without the obvious challenge. It shows how deep seated misogyny is, that it's not worth pursuing the question of why the "feelings" of a tiny group of lunatics are considered more important than a)facts and b) the feelings of the majority of the population.

I actually gasped when I read it.

It's gonna be a long time till we see another Labour government innit.

I think Blair made an awful mistake with Iraq and I find it really hard to forgive him for that.

Same. I marched against the Iraq war. No! War! Not in my name!

Disagree about Brown: his tinkering with the financial system caused the biggest housing bubble in history and has priced out so many younger people (yes I know subsequent governments have done nothing to resolve this.)

I think Blair made an awful mistake with Iraq and I find it really hard to forgive him for that. However, I do think he speaks a lot of sense and that he was the best PM that we've had in my lifetime. Fundamentally flawed, yes, but he also achieved a great deal.

I heard Gordon Brown speaking about Afghanistan the other day, and I think he too was a real force for good. I wish that he had been in the PM role for longer, but I do think the Blair/Brown partnership delivered a great deal for the UK.

The calibre of politicians since then has not been the same on either side of the house.

By the way, I am now getting called 'right wing' on Twitter as an insult by TRAs because the left have let women down so badly on this issue. I would never vote Tory and it does pain me that they seem to be the only party who are being sensible on the conflict between women's rights and trans rights.

We need the left to sort itself out and quickly.

Blair fan here too (ducks for cover). Every time he speaks out now, I think what a great speaker he is, particularly on Brexit and I think 'thank god, there's a grown up in the room'. (No, I don't agree with him on everything but I think we do forget what a good politician he was and what a charismatic speaker he is.)

I read the whole article last night and didn't think he said what he said about the trans right row because of the damage it's doing to Labour but because he genuinely thinks it's all bonkers*.

And I also thought that Leo's words about prioritising feelings - and of course, men's feelings is what he means - over facts is what's got us into this mess in the first place. I hope Tony Blair doesn't listen to his son on this!

*Which it is.