Why surrogacy should be banned

They are so busy not being judgemental and wanting everyone to be happy that they can't or won't interrogate what it actually is.

This is a serious problem that is probably the reason so many women support the sexist, misogynistic ideologies around surrogacy, prostitution and transfenderism.

@theleafandnotthetree
@BessieFinknottle

That interesting. I have only seen the the happy stories too though Sarah Carey had a good piece in the indo last weekend which was surprising as they are always pushing the happy endings stories.

Was disappointed to hear the childrens rapporteur come out and say it was time to legislate because "people are going to do it anyway" .

My feeling is there should be an amnesty of sorts for the children who are here now and in a dodgy legal situation and then a ban. At the end of the day children should not be left in a legal limbo because of the decisions that brought them here. They will have enough to deal with.

Same sex couples have been able to adopt for some time in the U.K. - was your friend from a country with a homophobic history and discriminatory laws?

[quote BessieFinknottle]@whataboutlove
@theleafandnotthetree

I'm in Ireland and have heard a lot of negative press re surrogacy. Anyway, the legal situation in Ireland is finally being addressed now it seems -

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/officials-warn-against-double-standard-on-commercial-surrogacy-1.4786522[/quote]
That's good to see. I just haven't come across the negative commentary that you mention, I stand by my feeling that most mainstream media coverage is of the 'isn't this wonderful, they get to build their family, the surrogates are angels' variety. I normally like Ryan Tubridy but he is one of the worst offenders.

53 shots in stomach
92 shots in butt
102 oestrogen patches

Patriot Conceptions is a US surrogacy agency that targets military wives. Take a look at their Instagram. It's shocking.

Our Military Wives choir could look very different if the law is changed to allow advertising in the U.K. as happens elsewhere.

Healthy women who have previously got pregnant the natural way with no problems get sucked into surrogacy and are shocked to find out what the process of "gestational" surrogacy involves.

And don't forget, unless there is a commissioning mother who is able to supply an egg, a SECOND woman has to go through all this and put her health at risk to provide eggs.

@whataboutlove
@theleafandnotthetree

I'm in Ireland and have heard a lot of negative press re surrogacy. Anyway, the legal situation in Ireland is finally being addressed now it seems -

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/officials-warn-against-double-standard-on-commercial-surrogacy-1.4786522

For those not fully informed on surrogacy and everything that goes on, this thread is great - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4440005-To-not-understand-the-issue-with-surrogacy

However one friend asked me if I was against surrogacy, did that include gay men? I repeatedly stated that I was against ALL surrogacy...she said it may be their only chance to have a baby.

I never understand this argument. So what if it is their only chance? Why is it a woman's "responsability" to fullfil this desire?

@comedycook, I have had those exact conversations. Am not sure whether to keep having them in the hope of raising awareness or give up. As you say, it's me that looks like the bad guy at the end of them! Yeah, what a cow worrying about vilnerable women and the needs and rights of babies....

Surely it’s in the best interest for the baby in those circumstances to be adopted by the couple who really want it and have spent 9 month or more preparing for it.

Not if the commissioning parents are less than desirable to be parents (see Adam Truong, 'Baby' Gammy), with numerous recent cases of infant deaths in the U.K. press it surprises me that people think that just because they bought a baby they will love the child. We all hope that no one would harm a child but it happens, even in adoption it happens (Elsie Scully Hicks).

The mother has also spent months, more than 9 months, preparing for the child's arrival, with the intention of giving the baby away immediately at birth. This requires her to disassociate from all that is natural and normal in pregnancy. Is it not possible that the implications counselling has an impact, that the mother might not feel how she is expected to feel but that she can't back out now? What happens then?

Surrogacy in the U.K. also completely avoids the adoption process, it is nothing like adoption. The parental order process has none of the detailed background checks, the legal process is entirely different. Commissioning parents are not adopting, they are "building their family through surrogacy" or some such fluffy language that is meant to disguise what they are actually doing.

Some of my 'loveliest' friends are the ones who can't see the problem with surrogacy. They are so busy not being judgemental and wanting everyone to be happy that they can't or won't interrogate what it actually is. I'm afraid being nice and kind doesn't always translate into being smart and questioning. Plus people have an incredible ability to overlook the big picture when something affects them personally or someone they love.

They aren't lovely. They are selfish and over privileged.

My lovely nephew and his (male) dp are looking into surrogacy at the moment. They are in a long term, very loving relationship and i have no doubt they would make amazing parents. But they would be 100% buying a baby, a baby who will have two lovely fathers, but no mother. They are intelligant men, yet they really seem to think of the surrogate as some sort of oven who just grows the baby without making any impact on it. I can (almost) understand their lack of consideration for the mother, a stranger who they feel will be well rewarded, but they don't seem to have considered the child's feelings at all. With so many adopted people desperately searching for their birth parents, particularly their mother, despite having wonderful, loving adoptive parents, how can they not see the potential for problems in the future?

Obviously giving birth to an additional child had an impact on her body

So how much do you think I should charge to let someone shoot me in the leg? Do you think it should be legal for people to pay others so they can shoot them? Exactly how much damage should it be legal for me to inflict if I pay a person?

but she was very happy about how it all went, and she is now using the money to give her own children opportunities they otherwise wouldn’t have had

Thank god she came out OK. The US has a massive maternal mortality rate for it's wealth, the children could have ended up without a mother instead. I wonder how they felt about it all? If, given the choice they would have preferred their mother not to take the risk, not to get pregnant with all that involves, and to then to see her give the baby away at the end of it. I wonder what that made them think about themselves? I wonder how much counselling they received for it, and who paid for that.

As for the child removed from its birth mother? That is sad yes

Not sad. Damaging - proven time after time. As others have said, we don't even remove puppies at birth, yet human babies? No problem.

Can't buy a kidney, but a whole human (as long as it's a baby) sure! Makes me wonder how many rich people are using genetic selection and surrogacy to grow children ready for when they're older and need a family member to donate a part altruistically. What a happy co-incidence that would be (I note that this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I've met a couple of fabulously wealthy people, and I absolutely believe at least one of them would do this)

But it wouldn’t be in the baby’s best interest to force it to stay with the surrogate mother if she had no desire to raise the child. Surely it’s in the best interest for the baby in those circumstances to be adopted by the couple who really want it and have spent 9 month or more preparing for it.

I’m not saying the mother should be forced to keep the baby. I’m pointing out that the trauma of removing a baby from its mother - the woman who gave birth to the baby - is considered in all other circumstances - except surrogacy. It’s considered so serious that to do it permanently it requires a judge to authorise it - except in surrogacy. A situation is being deliberately created where circumstances otherwise deemed serious enough to involve the Family Court are frivolously dismissed.

The best thing to do would be not to create such circumstances and pretend they aren’t as serious as the other comparable situations.

HTH.

It blows my mind that people can understand that puppies and kittens need to stay with their mother for at least 8 weeks buy can argue that babies can be sold and removed at birth from the only mother they have ever known

Regardless of genetics the newborn recognises the woman whose body they have grown in. Removing the baby causes lifelong trauma.