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Original poster

Caitlyn Jenner to head up women's racing team

39 replies

flyingbuttress43 · 09/02/2022 21:45

www.skysports.com/f1/news/30778/12536432/caitlyn-jenner-launches-jenner-racing-to-contest-in-third-season-of-w-series

I'm a Formula 1 fan and have distinctly mixed feelings about Caitlyn Jenner starting up Jenner Racing, becoming team principal and entering a team in the W series. The W series is an all female series providing an opening for more women to enter open wheeled racing and eventually a pathway through to Formula 1.

Jenner was previously a professional motor racer in the 80s after their time as a (male) Olympic decathalete so has some qualifications in the sport, though as a driver, not a principal.

But, for a series that is purely concentrated on getting females into formula motor racing - it includes female engineers, mechanics etc. and the CEO of the series is female - I confess to being irritated that even in this female sport we find a trans woman knuckling their way in.

W series features as support races in 8 of the upcoming 23 F1 race weekends this year, including Silverstone: it's covered by Channel 4 and is attracting increasing numbers of motor sport fans.

But guess whose face is going to get plenty of that publicity in 2022? Yet another inroad from trans women into female sport. Jenner is not driving and, to be fair, is on record as stating trans women should not compete against females in sports such as athletics, but does Jenner really have to knuckle their way into an area where the sport is a shop window for women racers to make their way in what is still overwhelmingly a man's world?

Maybe one could argue that they are supporting female racers and increasing their profile, but it still annoys the hell out of me.

OP posts:
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NeverDropYourMooncup · 10/02/2022 22:35

How screwed is the world that for women to have an advocate and instigator of women in racing, it takes a transwoman to have the security and safety to be able to do it?

Adrianneanneanne · 10/02/2022 16:31

We all know you can't change sex, but I respect trans people who can acknowledge their biological sex confidently and be honest about the impact of self ID. Usually the ones that pass better or are just very happy with their new identity that are like that.

Even though, yes, it is the just stereotypes, they have the self awareness to admit it. - and they want to be recognised as a stereotypical female

Idk... do what you want but be rational. Of course you are still your biological sex.

anothersmahedmug · 10/02/2022 16:26

Everything in your power to change sex is exactly nothing because you can't change it

SmellyOldOwls · 10/02/2022 16:17

@JellySaurus

The individual's intention may be laudable, but it is still impossible to change sex and gaslighting to pretend it has happened.
No, but she's done everything in her power to change her sex which is a world away from waffling about gender and putting on a dress and some make up while also sprouting a full beard and penis. I feel for people who have fully transitioned, self ID is more damaging to them than anyone. They're often the first to say they haven't actually changed sex either, or that they were born as the opposite sex, because they don't have this sort of entitled newish view that you can just pick a gender and dress up as it and be it.
JellySaurus · 10/02/2022 15:29

The individual's intention may be laudable, but it is still impossible to change sex and gaslighting to pretend it has happened.

ohfook · 10/02/2022 13:30

I'm going to wait before I offer any criticism because CJ has been very outspoken (to their detriment I think in LA circles) about the importance of keeping womens sport for biological females. I think that if this happens it may turn out to be quite positive.

burnoutbabe · 10/02/2022 13:10

@Goatsaregreat

I heard an interview with Caitlin about this yesterday and she was very clear that women's sport must remain for biological women.
Yes she was on good morning Britain saying this yesterday.
PlanetNormal · 10/02/2022 12:59

I’m a motorsport fan, too, and I don’t have a problem with Jenner’s involvement. As an ex-racer and proper petrolhead herself, she understands the barriers for women’s participation in motorsport.

The reason so few women get to the top is that it’s a numbers game. Girls are massively underrepresented in karting, which is the pathway into professional racing. So few girls ever try it that even if the female Lewis Hamilton is out there, she will almost certainly never sit in a kart.

Formula W is trying to change things by giving a platform to women racers. Anything which increases the visibility and profile of the series is good, and if that includes a high-profile trans woman running a team, so be it. Let’s give Jenner some credit for what appears to be a genuine attempt to contribute and let’s not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

JellySaurus · 10/02/2022 12:59

Do you realise how hurtful that sort of comment can be to biological women who have large hands? An unnecessary comment I think

Don't be daft. I have the same size hands as my adult son has, yet it is obvious which of us is female and which male just from setting our hands.

Women aren't merely small men. The physiological differences are not just in the sex organs. Our hands are also physiologically different.

SmellyOldOwls · 10/02/2022 12:44

CJ has had the full suite of surgical interventions hasn't she, and openly discuses living as a man previously - I have no problem with her, or with this to be honest. Trans women should be using the male privilege they have benefited from until transition to champion women's rights if they have an opportunity to, like in this instance.

Original poster
flyingbuttress43 · 10/02/2022 12:14

Thanks for the comments. I admit I have mixed feelings and I also stated that Jenner is against trans women in women's sports so I feel a bit guilty for being irritated by this. But I just am, OK? I would be hella irritated if we get a trans woman driving in the W series being presented as a woman.

Re women in open wheel motor sports. No reason why they can't be.There have been a few in the past, though not really successful. They are more successful in rallying. But F1 now has power steering for example. F1 drivers are among the most fit athletes of any sport in the world. The possible biggest physical barrier in F1 specifically is developing the neck muscles sufficiently to withstand the huge horizontal G forces -can be more than 5G for some corners and over the sustained period of a race. F1 drivers train by using their necks to resist massive pulling forces from pulleys and also hanging heavy weights from their heads in a horizontal position.

OP posts:
Wordlemakesmegrumpy · 10/02/2022 12:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Runningupthecurtains · 10/02/2022 12:08

@IShouldBeSoLurky yep it is hard to judge what is physiological disadvantage and what is down to misogyny, opportunity etc. Even when we think a certain physical type is best suited to a sport someone comes along and destroys that belief e.g. sprinting suits short, muscular frames but the fast man ever is the tall slender Usain Bolt.

Adrianneanneanne · 10/02/2022 11:32

I'm so confused, is Caitlin Jenner a GC conservative or not? I swear she was against men in women's sport

TinyTear · 10/02/2022 11:30

There is also a trans woman in formula woman or whatever it's called. Discovered last week as this guy also had an article in the WI magazine
Ffs

IShouldBeSoLurky · 10/02/2022 11:28

[quote Runningupthecurtains]@jellyfrizz I think that the high G force load drivers are exposed to favours male physiology. Also things like strength to weight ratios but as shown by Rachael Blackmore in horse racing that doesn't mean it's not possible for women to compete with men.[/quote]
Women actually have a significant advantage in horse racing because they can build strength without becoming too heavy. It’s just the entrenched sexism of the sport that’s held women jockeys back historically.

Linguini · 10/02/2022 11:07

I'm not sure I trust Caitlyn's definition of "woman".

Polly99 · 10/02/2022 10:43

I'm actually quite into this.
I see so many trans women campaigning on trans issues, but it is IME rarer to see them supporting women.
It appears that the series has previously been centrally run and now has allocated drivers to teams with strategic partners including Puma and other big brands (which will not all be run by women), presumably to bring in more money and promote growth. Jenner is I think acting as a partner, so is effectively providing a platform for women in the series rather than taking something from a woman.

Runningupthecurtains · 10/02/2022 10:38

There have been 3 female F1 drivers in the past.

There have been five actually, but none in the last 45 years. There are M/F physiology differences that may favour males, the differences in male and female bodies don't just impact running and swimming.

BootsAndRoots · 10/02/2022 10:26

Anyone can own a motorsports team, probably the other W series teams are owned by men.

Also male and female drivers can compete equally in motorsports. There have been 3 female F1 drivers in the past.

W series exists to promote women in the sport and hopes to promote some of their drivers into F1.

This is completely different to swimming and running where biology matters.

KohlaParasaurus · 10/02/2022 10:07

I was surprised to discover how much physical strength F1 racing requires. And while I think the financial backing of motorsport (and many other sports) has bigger ethical issues than Caitlyn Jenner, who at least talks the right talk about transwomen in women's sports, I'd prefer it if she appointed a woman as the public face and hands-on manager of the team. It only takes the involvement of a few males to change the character of an "all women" sport completely.

Runningupthecurtains · 10/02/2022 09:52

@IvyTwines

Yes, I wondered that - these days the cars are so technically advanced that having a smaller, lighter driver gives you a competitive advantage. Hamilton is 5'7" or 5'8" , and the shortest male driver is 5'2".
Small is definitely good in racing but as women have higher fat ratios and a different muscle structure (who knew it wasn't just about wearing lipstick and liking pink?) A 5'5" 8 stone woman isn't likely to have the same strength as a 5'5" 8 stone man. Things like neck muscles are under intense stress during racing.
IvyTwines · 10/02/2022 09:48

Yes, I wondered that - these days the cars are so technically advanced that having a smaller, lighter driver gives you a competitive advantage. Hamilton is 5'7" or 5'8" , and the shortest male driver is 5'2".

PlinkPlankPlunk · 10/02/2022 09:46

@jellyfrizz

Do you realise how hurtful that sort of comment can be to biological women who have large hands? An unnecessary comment I think.

I have never heard a biological woman being upset at having large hands. It’s very useful in netball.

And piano!
Runningupthecurtains · 10/02/2022 09:44

@jellyfrizz I think that the high G force load drivers are exposed to favours male physiology. Also things like strength to weight ratios but as shown by Rachael Blackmore in horse racing that doesn't mean it's not possible for women to compete with men.