More or Less Radio 4 Trans Women in Sport

I don't give a tiny shiny what the male supremacists demand, they are "wrong" by any and every measure.

Wow at last. Better late than never, and I mean that in a positive sense.

Very clear. Especially that they stated clearly that lia was the 400th fastest against men, and is now first against women, with a slight reduction in actual time.

It's interesting they didn't put anyone on from 'the other side'. But I think that's how the programme usually works, ie get an expert to explain the stats. It's a sign that the BBC is starting to treat this as a normal story that should be covered like any other, and is an extremely good sign.

Great that it followed the Johnson stories.

I know there is disagreement on this board about pronouns but I personally don't want the national broadcaster to be using unwanted pronouns about someone, where that named person has specifically rejected them, partly because that's my view anyway & irl (& I do acknowledge the arguments that this politeness has contributed to current policy madness), but also because it will sound cruel and arresting to most ppl given the social convention. It's also unrealistic given ofcom etc. It was very clear we were talking about male ppl swimming against women. Many ppl won't have heard about this story and will be surprised.

The death of nuance by Oliver burkman followed and that was a really good listen too.

Shame I missed this. I'll catch up on BBC sounds. The obsession with testosterone levels being the be all and end all of fairness in sport infuriates me. A woman is not a man with low testosterone!!

I haven't met anyone in real life who is neutral on this issue. Everyone thinks it is unfair and the solution isn't complex in the slightest.

It was interesting to hear More or Less spend a good while giving Boris Johnson a kicking over his having repeatedly and knowingly lied to Parliament using statistics he knows are false, before doing transwomen in women's sport based on the science.

A number of listeners will have heard the first part and will have cheered More or Less along over their incisive fact-based analysis and then will have heard the programme deviate away from the path of ideological purity. I'm smiling to myself thinking of the cognitive dissonance that will have been triggered.

Probably having to conform to Ofcom rules on reporting pronouns?

I expect they are, but I believe those rules need to be binned. I want language that's reality based, not ideological

I thought it was very well presented and anyone starting 'neutral' would be very clear that puberty advantage is not negated by lowering testosterone and that ergo transwomen in women's sport is not fair.

In a way he was saying "Some people are idiots."

Very interesting! 🙂

Ross Tucker gave a brilliant, clear explanation
I was disappointed with the final statement 'some people believe transpeople should be able to compete in their chosen category'
Or similar. I was expecting, naively I guess, some people believe sport should be fair for women

Hopefully a lot of people who might listen to this because of the earlier equally excellent section on Johnson’s lies will listen to the whole programme…

And as an aside, I think it would help enormously if the BBC would use clear language - it's men in women's sport, and it's "he" not "she".

That was excellent, Ross Tucker put it very well. Let’s face it, reducing testosterone after puberty is like locking the stable door when the horse has already won the Gold Cup!

twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1484469424837074947
He has a brilliant explanation on his Twitter here - can someone please archive it before he gets hounded off?

I’ve emailed them to thank them for this. It’s taken a while but good to hear.

Just finished listening to it. I'd agree that Ross Tucker was incredibly clear and I also loved the analogy. I can imagine that if it was a subject you weren't aware of at all, it would be really helpful in terms of explaining it.

That was actually really clear and thank you Ross Tucker for using accurate research and explaining why, even with testosterone reduction, anyone born male has an unfair advantage over anyone born female in sports.

Listening now. Ross Tucker being EXTREMELY clear. Thank you.

The fact that the idea of putting males into women's sport isn't laughed out of the room in the first instance is misogyny in action.

There is nothing to discuss and it's not complex or difficult.

Get men out of women's sport.

I love Ross Tucker