Gender dysphoria and autism

@DrBlackbird I imagine because it’s part of a group where they feel accepted coupled with increasingly rigid gender stereotypes - it’s no longer ok for a girl to have short hair and be a girl.

How many adult women, not just autistic ones, fit rigidly on the Mermaids barbie/gi joe scale? How many youngsters are feeling the pressure to conform into neat little boxes in a way that just didn’t happen 10/20/30 years ago?

Yes you’re right HoodieHoodie that there are girls/boys that have always had feelings like this and I’d want you and others to have support.

But I’m talking about the massive escalation in numbers of young teen girls feeling this way, who, in IMO would not have issues around gender or their sex, but for SM. They may well still feel ‘other’ or ‘different’ but they’d never question their biology. Or seek to dramatically change it.

For me, the sticking point is would all these autistic kids, more girls than boys, feel they’re NB/trans/gender free etc if there was no social media? No YouTube with acolytes talking ecstatically about their transition, no Instagram posts declaring the beauty of trans, no ‘community’ to join? And no bloody adults earnestly affirming the same. I’m pretty sure what my answer is. So I’d disagree about the not being swayed and say it’s the complete opposite.

I worry about this for my dd moving forward. She is 9 and finds it hard to get on with girls, boys are more straight forward easier to read . Relationships with girls are more complicated. She played with boys at preschool and she still prefers the company of boys she also loves playing football and is good at it.
Most of her clothes come from the boys section because of sensory issues she hates things that are tight or frilly and fussy.
As she gets older I worry about how difficult it is going to be for her to fit in socially.

But you can make almost the same explanation without that - maybe autistic kids who prefer culturally non standard things for their sex are less likely to want to conform anyway. Adding in some "gender identity" explanation is just adding an unneeded element without any evidence to support it.

The sticking point seems to be that these kids are somewhat less likely than same age peers to realize that the boundaries around expected behaviours aren't as strict as all that. There are lots of gnc women and to the point where actually a lot of them aren't even thought of that way particularly.

Why we'd choose a conclusion based on the existence of something there is no real evidence for rather than one that seems to fit in with the experience of autistic girls more general I do not know.

Following this with interest. My daughter is autistic and non binary also. She's just 13.

Accepting that the not fitting in feeling as a state of being, when you think you have found a 'solution' must be hard.

A magic pill to fix the difference and have an easier life, removal of doubts, explanation for the gap.

I feel sorry for all the young people seizing drugs and surgery, who then find that they feel the same and that they feel the same way but with health problems

I would love to know too, but outrageously there has been no research as to why 25% of girls on Tavistockbooks are diagnosed autistic with another 25% suspected autistic. It is a scandal.

I do not believe it is a cause an effect. The relationship is more nuanced. I believe autistic girls are more susceptible to gender ideology.

Autistics can be very black and white in their thinking. It only takes a comment from someone at school to get them questioning and there are plenty of websites where you can get the answers to am I trans. E.g an autistic girl has short hair due to sensory issues and someone comments are you a boy.

My daughter is autistic but very much gender critical and can't understand the other side denying biology so it can go both ways.

Tony Atwood (international expert on autism and girls) did a lecture on why transitioning doesn't 'cure' autism. This isn't the video I've watched but assuming it covers the same content.

There are plenty of gender critical autistics out there (I'm a member of a private group) but as you can imagine it is very hard for them to be 'out'.

I've mentioned on this board before about the fawning of parents whose autistic girls are transitioning. My views are not welcome even when posters want to hear both sides and I recommend Transgender Trend or Bayswater Support, but recommending Mermaids is applauded.

Here is an interview with Tony Attwood calling for an inquiry.
bioedge.org/uncategorized/inquiry-needed-into-link-between-aspergers-and-gender-dysphoria-australian/

This needs urgent research but sadly the National Autistic Society are signed up to gender ideology.

What does being non binary meant to her, OP? What is the difference between her identifying as female and identifying as non-binary? What does it "free" her from?
I'm really curious. Is it just a case of not conforming to the stereotype of what a girl / woman is?

I'm glad she's happy. I hope she stays happy, in her mind and with her body, and doesn't think she needs to go changing anything about herself.

That is purely what my worry is about.

And I totally get it. I'm quite sure I would have been the same. And I thank fuck I'm not a teenager now.

Not how the autistic advocate describes masking.

Lgbtq spaces embrace those who feel they don't fit in.

My son is autistic. He's 7. He has super long hair and likes to wear dresses sometimes because he finds them comfortable and he doesn't care at all about other peoples opinions so he doesn't get embarrassed about looking different or not fitting in.

When he was 5/6 he went through a stage of saying he wanted to be a girl or he was genderless but after we explained to him that was ok but also boys can wear dresses if they want to and still be boys and having long hair and wearing a dress isn't what makes you a girl he soon stopped and now is just a 7 year old boy who's comfortable with who he is.

I think autistic people can sometimes see in the extreme so if they are told that girls have to be a certain way or boys have to wear certain things then when they like the "wrong" things they feel like maybe they must be the opposite gender then. That's why it's so important to let them know clothes are just clothes and toys are just toys and they don't define your gender.

My autistic teen’s clinician told us that around 80% of all trans/non binary people are also autistic. She explained that it wasn’t because they were confused/didn’t know their own minds/were trying to fit expectations, but in fact the opposite. She said that autistic people are less likely to be swayed by societal ‘norms’ and are therefore more definite about their inherent gender identity.

That's a bit shocking. I was convinced I knew my own mind when I was 15. I didn't anticipate how much my sense of self would change throughout my life.

She said that autistic people are less likely to be swayed by societal ‘norms’ and are therefore more definite about their inherent gender identity.

I am aware that not everyone acknowledges gender identity as being separate to the sex you were born, so this answer will not work for everyone, but thought It was relevant to the question.

If you mean that autistic people are more likely to act and present themselves however feels natural to them, without being swayed by gendered social expectations, then I don't think that's at all incompatible with a gender critical view of things. Quite the opposite. It just suggests that how we choose to dress and behave shouldn't be tied to sex or gender in the first place. There is no need to think 'I like x hobby/clothes/interests and therefore I must be x gender'. There is no reason why those things should be anything to do with sex or gender.

My autistic teen’s clinician told us that around 80% of all trans/non binary people are also autistic. She explained that it wasn’t because they were confused/didn’t know their own minds/were trying to fit expectations, but in fact the opposite. She said that autistic people are less likely to be swayed by societal ‘norms’ and are therefore more definite about their inherent gender identity.
I am aware that not everyone acknowledges gender identity as being separate to the sex you were born, so this answer will not work for everyone, but thought It was relevant to the question.

There’s also the issue that for a long time, and still to a lot of I’ll informed medical professionals and the general public, autism was considered to be “extreme male brain” behaviour. That just lends itself beautifully to gender and non binary thoughts as it’s still considered a more masculine neuro divergence. Autism in women and girls is so little researched and understood that it’s not surprising that if an autistic women doesn’t conform to standard femininity because of interests or sensory issues with feminine clothing, make up etc. It’s easy to feel you don’t fit in and have this “extreme male brain” problem and so I can see how it would be easy to slip over to “maybe I’m a boy or non binary or…”

I've asked why can't she still be a woman, just a different woman because there are all sorts of women, she says she is a woman but that her gender is non binary.

I could be wrong, but I'm getting the impression that some people who consider themselves non-binary simply regard it as meaning that they reject/don't embody stereotypes belonging to either gender (rather than actually believing that they are neither a man nor a woman).

While I applaud the idea of getting rid of gender stereotypes, I don't really see why doing so requires someone to identify as a different category of human (as if 'non-binary' were a separate sex). Arguably everybody is non-binary, in the sense that none of us embodies absolutely all of the stereotypes associated with our sex all of the time. But as a young person questioning one's identity, it must be very tempting to be drawn into a 'tribe'.

I imagine that a lot of autistic people find the changes associated with puberty much harder to deal with than most NT people. And the accompanying sexualisation and social/beauty expectations for women must make it even harder for autistic girls.

I have a autistic 10yo DD and this worries me so much. She's not very gender conforming - likes her hair long, but that's the only stereotypical "feminine" thing about her. Not interested at all in how she looks or what she wears, as long as she's comfortable. Only wears trousers - preferably trackie bottoms - and boots. Doesn't really fit in with anyone, girls or boys. She's a loner, and genuinely enjoys her own company, but has admitted she "would like a friend to talk to."

She's in early puberty and is clearly uncomfortable with how her body is changing - has gone from being completely unbothered by her body to deeply self-conscious of it in a matter of months. I can see it could appeal to her if she was told there was a way to stop all these changes happening.

So far she's been largely protected from trans propaganda by her somewhat old-fashioned (sensible?) primary school, but I worry about what will happen when she attends secondary, as there doesn't seem to be a "non-woke" secondary in the area.

We've talked about these issues, I've explained that the only things that make you a girl or a boy are your genes and genitalia, and that other that you can dress, act and do whatever you like, but it doesn't change your sex. She knows about sexual stereotypes, and that they're a bad thing - to the extent that she gave a boy in her class a real telling off recently for saying that women are kinder and gentler than men - because "that's sexist!"

We tell her every day that we love her and are proud of her just for being exactly who she is, and on the whole she seems very confident and secure in herself. I can only hope that's enough.

Kieran makes so much sense.

Despite making v good points about damaging stereotypes and gender stereotypes within autism elsewhere, he doesn't however, see the issues with gender ideology.