Louis Theroux: Sex work is valid work

Also if sex work is work and we all recognise it as no different to other jobs how do we legislate against sexual harassment in the work place? If my manager adds “daily blowjobs to the senior staff members” to my jobs list how is it different to him adding “‘note taking in meetings with senior staff”? It just doesn’t work.

@Dobedodo What a great answer.

If we pretend it’s not there is it’s not work that doesn’t happen we just sweep this issues under the carpet

What nonsense. It’s not either or . Just because people don’t believe SWIW doesn’t mean it’s ignored and issues are swept under the carpet. It’s BECAUSE of the issues that people don’t want swept under the carpet that people don’t support the “SWIW” mantra: the trafficking, the drug addiction, the pimping, the violence, the rape, the male entitlement etc. It’s insulting to tell people who don’t believe this mantra that they don’t think about or don’t care about everything else.

It's extraordinary that in the day and age when 'lived experience' is prized and often considered necessary in the arts, a very privileged English public school male who has never been female, never been poor, never had to do anything desperate for money, and would only ever be the 'customer' in this situation, is seen as the appropriate person to cover this highly controversial and sensitive issue.

dotty I've seen that episode on Netflix. Found it very unsettling - he seemed excited about the whole thing. I also recall one of the women offering him a free massage. One of them was about 18 and extremely vulnerable. The whole thing was weird. Really not sure how being isolated in the middle of the desert with the pimp and the punters counts as safe either.

I think what I found so uncomfortable was that he was so clearly out of his depth. It was all a very new environment for him and he seemed excited to explore the "surface level" (iyswim) without having the depth of thinking / analysis to ask about the parts of the story that are not being told.

I think this is generally a weakness of his style of documentary / lived experience narrative. It works well in a setting where there are people with different perspectives accessible in one location (eg a hospital ward - patients, family, nurses, doctors) which lets you build up a bigger picture. But when the people you can access easily are all currently invested in presenting only one part of the narrative (This is a safe brothel. We are all fine. Nothing to see here.) it is very misleading. Particularly if the documentary makers don't have the time/ability to dig any further. Or to overcome the fear/threats that may stop others from contributing.

@NotJustACigar I'm sincerely glad that things have worked out for you. For lurkers it is worth making the point that there is other work that students can do to self support when studying. It can be rewarding and fun. I dont want this to become the default option for girls. It is so dangerous for them for so many reasons.

I don’t agree with him but it’s a pretty mainstream view so I don’t feel to surprised. I very much doubt he’d be supportive if his sons decided having anal sex with multiple men on a daily basis was a good alternative to whatever prestigious career he’s got in mind for them though.

I agree with Julie bindels views on sex work so a few points that would be better phrased by her:

Sex work is not “the oldest profession” midwifery is probably the oldest profession. A profession is something where skills are learned and valued. Whereas in sex work young and inexperienced are highly valued.

Saying “it will always exist so let’s allow it safely” is like saying “child abuse will always exist so let’s teach people how to beat kids without causing them permanent damage”

Saying that some women don’t have the skills to go to university and will prefer to do sex work rather than work in factories is just making excuses. When people are in poverty you put food in their mouths not dicks. We should work on providing exit strategies and support. Evidence shows there is a high take up of this type of support.

The Netherlands which is often hailed as a great model of legal prostitution is one of the worst places in the world for human trafficking now.

And finally, wanting to end sex work is not the same as disliking sex workers.

I remember about 20 years ago ,he visited a Brothel in the Nirvada desert .Spoke to young girls and the owners of the place . Seem to be accepting of this arrangement .As long as the girls were "safe" .I cannot understand this mentality .Even if he doesnt have daughters of his own ,does he not have friends or relations with any ? Maybe its time for some reassessment with a less privileged male/female presenter

I rather see women being protected from
pimps and violent clients and more with access to good sexual health screening. If we pretend it’s not there is it’s not work that doesn’t happen we just sweep this issues under the carpet

I say do both, as in protect the women who do this work and help them leave. Because let's face it, the minute you say 'sex work is work' you start accepting it as a valid job opportunity and why would anyone spend resources to help women leave what is a valid job opportunity? Women end up at the bottom of the resource pile.

Accepting that it is work puts pressure on those in need to do the same. Sex is not work. If women are in need a feminist (real one) campaigns for financial support and real work for women. Much easier to say "hey, you gotta do what you gotta do". I am appalled at that argument. It has given up on any idea of women's self determination.

I'm a former sex worker (not prostitution but adjacent) and agree it should be regulated and the women who work in that industry should receive help, therapy and coaching if they want it to get out of it of the field, again if they want to. For me sex work was a force for good as I was able to work very little and devote most of my time to my studies and ended up (after yes a terrible childhood) a high achiever in a great professional career. Another woman I worked with used the money she saved to open a shop that's been very successful. For others I worked with it lead to a downward spiral of prostitution, drugs, etc.

Sex work is absolutely not right for the vast majority of women and my fear is that it could end up that job centres try to push women into these sorts of careers, etc. But if it's done as a choice it can sometimes be as it was for me a way to a much better life than I otherwise would have had.

I think "oldest profession" claims are irrelevant and wrong. It's not a profession. There is no evidence that it was the first job ever invented. I suspect being a hunter or tool maker were there first. Plus something having been around for a long time doesn't make it OK. Slavery had been around for a long time but people don't use that argument to justify slavery and prostitutes are being used in a similar way as service humans.

@OhWhyNot
I apologise - you said it’s “valid work”.

No I don’t have a daughter

Where have I said that it’s good to promote any form of sex work I haven’t

I said that it’s part of society that is not going to go away. I have said women have always traded their bodies and always will do you really believe women don’t marry for money ? Do you really think all women have the choice to go to university and gain a career? Do you think some women may actually choose the desperate choice to work as a sex worker a few hours a day rather than hours in a dirty factory for pittance not all women have the luxury of choices that you and I have

I have worked with sex workers many who are extremely emotionally damaged from childhood and vulnerable others who went in wanting to earn extra money for nicer things from various different back grounds. The happy hooker well maybe the odd few but this is really more a mans sexual fantasy

I rather see women being protected from
pimps and violent clients and more with access to good sexual health screening. If we pretend it’s not there is it’s not work that doesn’t happen we just sweep this issues under the carpet

Ahh... I always thought he's somewhat unconventional but also quite gullible. Reminded me of his second Saville documentary when he said he did not notice at the time of recording the first one what was happening in front of him, and how he was being manipulated.

'Over privileged male expounds view on something that doesn’t affect him or anyone in his social circle'

Exactly. Thought he was better than that. What a plum

Yes, it should be seen as valid work. It is the oldest industry in the world and will continue to exist in many forms (prostitution, porn etc). I would much prefer that the industry was validated, legalised and the people working in it (women and men) are protected and safe. Remember the Ipswich sex workers who were murdered?

If more visibility was gained then it might be easier to stop the associated exploitation and abuse of adults and children which I think is better than being squeamish that the industry exists.

Over privileged male expounds view on something that doesn’t affect him or anyone in his social circle

Next!!

@OhWhyNot
Do you have a daughter and if so would you be happy to promote “sex work” to her when she’s making career choices?

If you’d happily recommend it to your own daughter/niece/granddaughter, how do you think she’d cover her income during times of ill health/pregnancy/post natally? How would she continue earning money when, let’s face it, she ages and her body / appearance is perhaps deemed less attractive by the male “punters”? What skills would she have that would be transferable to another source of income? Many questions…

Do you think there are many women doing this because “they want to buy themselves a piece of jewellery”?

Yes it should be seen as valid work not because it has a place in modern society but because it will always have a place sadly it’s a truth we can’t escape

I assume you think universities should also create toolkits for burglary and drug dealing safely? Because they aren't going away either.

Men will claim they support sex workers and scream “sex work is real work.” But at the end of the day, talk is cheap. They’ll buy your content and stop you from moving up in life.

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