Page 5 | Why isn't The Sun all over this?

blueirises · 2022-02-07T17:41:43+00:00

I've been a lurker here for quite a while, but I may have missed something. I just wonder why The Sun, with its history of "exposing" "Looney left" policies, doesn't seem to be covering the mess that Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens are making of self-ID and other anti-women ideas. Are they hanging fire until closer to a general election, or do they really not think their readership want to know about the possibility of men getting changed ^or whatever^ next to their wives, daughters, mothers etc?

VestofAbsurdity · 08/02/2022 14:06

@Waitwhat23

It's grimly amusing to see anti women posters claim that the 'GC movement' is middle class 'whinging'. Gender ideology is the epitome of a luxury belief, illustrated by the experiences of the Deptford Project in London (starts about half way down this article) www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

The whole thing is an important read but I'll just quote the last two paragraphs -

'It’s bad enough that women are being fired, ostracized, bullied, and threatened for trying to speak about an issue that affects their lives, rights, spaces, and movements in so many ways. That it is largely young, white, middle and upper class individuals, bullying marginalized women, who have worked in these movements for decades, makes the situation all the more shocking and hypocritical.

Mcdonagh says:

“I want to tell those people who have gentrified our whole existence that our safe spaces are not for sale. That our experience is not for them to redefine. I want to let those people know that they are complicit in the victimization of already victimized people. Mostly, I want to start a conversation about social privilege and how the trans political and social movement is driven through [academia] and is suppressing the rights of working class women.”

But, but, but barley knows that working class men and women don't think this way after all barley knows some, clearly not those sort of working class women though so them and their opinions don't exist and can be dismissed.

Waitwhat23 · 08/02/2022 14:01

It's grimly amusing to see anti women posters claim that the 'GC movement' is middle class 'whinging'. Gender ideology is the epitome of a luxury belief, illustrated by the experiences of the Deptford Project in London (starts about half way down this article) www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

The whole thing is an important read but I'll just quote the last two paragraphs -

'It’s bad enough that women are being fired, ostracized, bullied, and threatened for trying to speak about an issue that affects their lives, rights, spaces, and movements in so many ways. That it is largely young, white, middle and upper class individuals, bullying marginalized women, who have worked in these movements for decades, makes the situation all the more shocking and hypocritical.

Mcdonagh says:

“I want to tell those people who have gentrified our whole existence that our safe spaces are not for sale. That our experience is not for them to redefine. I want to let those people know that they are complicit in the victimization of already victimized people. Mostly, I want to start a conversation about social privilege and how the trans political and social movement is driven through [academia] and is suppressing the rights of working class women.”

Goatsaregreat · 08/02/2022 14:01

Funny isn't it how certain posters lecture us with great certainty about women's history, politics, feminism, literature all acquired via google even the gc movement.

And every single time women / feminsts for whom this is our history, unpick and expose the falsehoods, the untruths, phrase by phrase, sentence by sentence.

Phobiaphobic · 08/02/2022 14:00

@barleybadminton

Don't worry, everyone will wake up when their daughters are losing to males in the sporting teams at school.

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:56

Countless women only forums have gone because men.

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:55

This is absolute nonsense and I would bet actual money you cannot produce single shred of evidence to back this statement up.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn%27s_Music_Festival

MitchFest.

Lesbian women only festival closed because men.

Before anyone says "that's just one example, few years ago", yes it's one example. One a pattern.

Thelnebriati · 08/02/2022 13:53

single sex women and Lesbian groups and services have almost gone due to the insistence that men should have the right to be there.

Womens centres - there used to be a network of women only, single sex centers across the country. Thats gone.
DV shelters - Ditto.
Rape Crisis no longer guarantee they will offer single sex trauma group therapy sessions.
NHS wards are no longer single sex, and hospitals are no longer fined for putting men on womens wards.
Womens prisons are no longer single sex and even convicted sex offenders have been placed in them without a GRC.
Women only gym sessions, swimming sessions and changing facilities are fast disappearing, despite the fact that mixed se changing brings a huge increase in the number of incidents of voyeurism and sexual assault.
Girl Guides - no longer single sex, not even for camps.
Girls schools - Girls' Day School Trust anounced it would not accept male pupils and there was an uproar. Eton doesnt accept girls however they identify, absolute silence.

As for non-official or online groups we obviously cant talk about those because womens lived experiences are not counted as evidence.

Nothing to see here, move along.

FirstAconite · 08/02/2022 13:42

@DdraigGoch

'Fifty-one teenagers aged 16 and 17 who were born as females were sent to hospitals in England to undergo further assessment for “specialist chest reconstruction” over the past six years'

This is another example of where the muddying of language gets us. Reading "51 teenagers sent for specialist chest reconstruction" outside the context of this thread would lead me to think of the victims of knife crime who had suffered punctured lungs or something. Not cutting off perfectly healthy body parts for no good medical reason.

Exactly. If we used truthful language, that quote would read:

Over the past six years, fifty-one 16 and 17 year old girls were sent to hospitals in England to undergo further assessment for bilateral mastectomies.

Blessex · 08/02/2022 13:40

@SevenWaystoLeave

google Raquel Rosario Sanchez. She is in court today because trans activists at Bristol Uni wouldn’t allow her to run a woman’s group without men entering.

google Nicola Murray who was visited by the police because she said she wasn’t going to refer women to the Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre because it is now headed by a transwoman with penis who said that victims of rape need to re-educate themselves and their bigoted ways.

That’s just two examples from the last week.

Goatsaregreat · 08/02/2022 13:37

@SevenWaystoLeave

Women and Lesbian groups and services have almost gone due to the insistence that men. should have the right to be there

This is absolute nonsense and I would bet actual money you cannot produce single shred of evidence to back this statement up. Women and lesbian groups still exist across the country, exactly as numerous as they were before, and even if some of them are trans inclusive a) this isn't a new thing, many have been trans inclusive for years and b) your chances of actually encountering a trans women in one of these groups is still pretty low.

Barley is absolutely right, for most people who haven't taken up transphobia as a hobby, it's an issue that barely registers, they don't see a difference in their lives, they don't see this alleged flood of trans women suddenly invading spaces they weren't in before because that isn't what's happening. And if they are aware of the issues, assuming they will side with the GCs is a bit of a presumption - the level of hate and vitriol obvious to any objective observer is just as likely to turn them off as it is to get them riled up.

Completely wrong. There used to be numerous lesbian groups, bars, consciousness raising groups, conferences, events and a thriving women's media (Spare Rib & Outwrite being just two of the UK resources). Not just in London but in many other cities Us older lesbians now look on in horror at all the young women having to meet in secret, hidden groups, being thrown off dating apps if they seek other women to date and being policed by aggressive males (and some other women) to ensure they only use the permitted speech and attitudes.
And (for the perpetually hard of thinking) it's not transwomen in women's spaces that are the issue), it's men - any / all of who can self identify their way into any women's safe space via the meaningless twaw mantra.

ScreamingMeMe · 08/02/2022 13:37

the level of hate and vitriol obvious to any objective observer

Lol

Rheopecticfluid · 08/02/2022 13:34

That's nice. Barely has a friend. Sweet.
I don't see why youre here though SevenWaystoLeave if most people think it's a non issue. After all, if you're right, then what do you think you're going to achieve? After all, we don't have any influence do we. There's only 6 of us after all. ☺️ Dont you have a march to get ready for too? With the millions of allies that you have?

SevenWaystoLeave · 08/02/2022 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

VestofAbsurdity · 08/02/2022 13:17

@barleybadminton

What recent events would they be then? The EHRC talking to FPFW perhaps?

I was thinking more of the gay man recently tortured and beaten to death by three strangers because of his sexuality.

So let me get this straight, you are blaming gender critical feminists and their activism for this?

Rheopecticfluid · 08/02/2022 13:16

I would have thought it was obvious from my posts. Homophobia is still a real and potentially deadly problem in the UK and attacks on the rainbow flag, 'queers' and LGBT institutions is contributing to the hostility that still exists in society towards LGBT people

Actually what is obvious is your desperate reach to allow men into women's spaces, even though the majority of violence crime is commited by men, because occasionally a woman can be violent.

What a load of horse shit.

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:15

Homophobia isn't a huge "deadly" problem.

There have been two homophobic murders in 6 years.

Meanwhile, women are killed by their male partner at a rate of three a week currently.
Normally two a week but it's gone up with the pandemic.

Rheopecticfluid · 08/02/2022 13:14

Maybe you'd like to list all the women that have been raped, murdered, attacked by men since then. You'll be here a while.

Men are responsible for the vast majority of violence / sexual assault / murder. Not women. Men. You may get the odd female that commits violent crimes. It's pretty rare but it happens. This however is not a reason to allow males into women's spaces. Is it.

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:13

Oh not that case, another one.

Oh I see a gay man in the UK got killed in 2016 and also another one more recently.
Horrific. Awful.

Women still make up less than 7% of murderers.

We're still allowed to exclude males from our spaces.

barleybadminton · 08/02/2022 13:13

@Rheopecticfluid

One of the people convicted was a woman, who after helping beat him to death stood over his body and said "I needed that"

What point are you trying to make here?

I would have thought it was obvious from my posts. Homophobia is still a real and potentially deadly problem in the UK and attacks on the rainbow flag, 'queers' and LGBT institutions is contributing to the hostility that still exists in society towards LGBT people.

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:11

I remember that case because it was so unpleasant.

Rheopecticfluid · 08/02/2022 13:10

One of the people convicted was a woman, who after helping beat him to death stood over his body and said "I needed that"

What point are you trying to make here?

barleybadminton · 08/02/2022 13:08

That's why women should be able to exclude males when we're vulnerable. Or just anytime really, ever.

One of the people convicted was a woman, who after helping beat him to death stood over his body and said "I needed that".

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:08

Also, is 2016 "recent" now?

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:06

@barleybadminton

What recent events would they be then? The EHRC talking to FPFW perhaps?

I was thinking more of the gay man recently tortured and beaten to death by three strangers because of his sexuality.

Not done by women who want same sex spaces.

Male violence is a problem.
That's why women should be able to exclude males when we're vulnerable. Or just anytime really, ever.

Linguini · 08/02/2022 13:04

Because what the gender critical movement is managing to do is harm individuals and make people feel frightened

That is some fucking DARVO at it's finest.

GC women aren't pinning dead rats to the door of rape shelters.
GC women aren't sending rape/death/violent/sexually violent threats to anyone.
GC women aren't wearing balaclavas.
GC women aren't waving baseball bats around at protests outside places where women are talking.
GC women aren't letting off smoke bombs.
GC women aren't sending unwanted pictures of their erect penis to women.

Quit with the gaslighting barley you'll have more luck.