"Lesbians a look at women in changing rooms too"

Santa, that was my point when defining that voyeurism is a specific thing, and an issue we see almost entirely in males. And not okay.

Being in a space with someone who may look at our body and may have thoughts about it is not the same as being in a space with someone who specifically gets off on our non-consensual participation in their paraphilia.

Today actually, in the health club changing rooms I saw a woman with the best set of legs I've seen in my life, super toned and great shape. I told her outright her legs were fab and asked what machines she used and what workout she was doing, she was so so lovely and not only talked me through her routine but we are meeting on Thursday so she can show me her sets herself, im so grateful!

And that's the difference isn't it, ogling and admiring! If I'm looking at a woman's body in that way (I don't make a habit of it 🤣) it's because I'm thinking damn you are killing it, I wonder what you are doing and can I copy it!? And that's ok in the safety of a woman's space, with other women who are building others up and asking for advice/inspo in that setting. It would be a very very different dynamic to have a man in that space and asking similar questions, wouldn't it?

There isn’t some great, hitherto unreported lesbian crime wave. Prisons aren’t full of lesbians who have committed sex crimes against women. Lesbians don’t murder 3 women a week.
It’s homophobic as fuck to use that argument.
Statistically, women are not a risk to other women. It’s men that are the risk, however they fucking “identify”.

I’m not even a lesbian and this gives me the absolute fucking rage. Cunts.

No woman, regardless of sexual orientation, has ever:
Grabbed me by the crotch in a public bar while their mates cheered them on.
Kerb crawled me while walking home from school in my uniform.

Stroked my arse / thighs on a crowded bus.
Masturbated in the seat next to me in the cinema.
Catcalled or gesticulated at me from a passing car.
Followed me up the street asking for sex.
Called me a 'frigid bitch'.

Watch and learn Gentlemen, watch and learn.

I think people who say this are generally not commenting on pedators, but on the idea that it is uncomfortable to be naked in a place where someone might be thinking about you sexually.

And that is an argument people have made at times, that they don't want someone they don't know thinking about their nudity sexually, even if they never know about it. Many people would feel somewhat or even very uncomfortable if we found out that some person we'd met casually was wanking off thinking about them in private. Others it wouldn't bother at all.

So on the one hand about why that makes people uncomfortable, and why on the other hand we tend to say that fantasies are fine as long as we keep them private. There is a bit of a "don't ask don't tell" element

My own sense is that in general, the preference not to be nude with opposite sex people isn't really about safety or even sexual desire, though those things are real. Because most women would also not like to change with their brother who they feel safe with and with whom there is no sexual element. But most would not mind changing with a lesbian who might be attracted to us as long as she wasn't behaving in an abnormal way.

It may be worth trying to articulate clearly what that's about because I find even some women, especially younger ones, seem to need a clear explanation before they "get" it. Sometimes people say it's about dignity which I think is true as far as it goes, but the question then is, why do people feel that changing with even a safe opposite sex person in these kinds of settings is undignified?

I will happily share a changing room with any woman (gay, straight or bi) I absolutely will not share a changing room with a man (however he identifies)

Same.

FFS - talk about two steps backwards, suggesting that lesbians are predatory/a threat in order to advance the trans cause!

I am livid on behalf of my lesbian sisters!! I will happily share a changing room with any woman (gay, straight or bi) I absolutely will not share a changing room with a man (however he identifies). The men are a threat to me, the women are not.

I recall a similar exchange on twitter where someone pointed out that by saying ‘but what about lesbians and women can be just as bad as men etc’ they were basically admitting that they didn’t see trans women as either lesbian or women.

This is outrageous.
Myself, my partner, my friends do not ever ogle other females anywhere, ever. This is just pure evil.
This movement needs to be fought against they are a dangerous lot.
Women are at serious risk here as are our daughters and granddaughters.
Why are female politicians eg happy to go along witb this nonsense.....what the hell is happening, the world has gone mad.

Is it those that shout the loudest .......well we women need to start hollering.

Lesbians have the same body as me.

I don’t particularly want to see anyone else naked, but seeing a female body is distinctly different than encountering male genitalia. The sexual orientation of the person I see naked is irrelevant to my experience.

From a safety and privacy perspective, I have never seen any statistics that show that lesbians commit assaults at a rate different than women as a whole.

There is no excuse for comparing lesbians with men who "identify" as women in order to access women's spaces, or even with well intentioned transwomen who just want to pee/have a shower after swimming/try on clothes. Absolutely no excuse, in any context. They can just fuck right off with that offensive nonsense.

I’m getting incoherent in my bloody rage now

Their homophobia is disgusting - lesbians are attracted to women as are straight men. that doesn’t mean lesbians behave like men ffs

Well, a lesbian isn't going to rape me with their male penis are they?
And I won't get pregnant if I'm raped by a woman will I?

And she's not likely to be hugely stronger than I am is she?
And that the chances of a female being a sexual predator are TINY compared to the KNOWN FACT that 99% of sexual criminals are MALE.

And last but not least, she’s been there alongside us all her life. She’s not demanding entry to somewhere she has never, and will never belong.

That response - steeped in male entitlement as it is - should do a great job of getting the L out.

It would be good to have someone ask Nancy for her views on this too.

Well, a lesbian isn't going to rape me with their male penis are they?
And I won't get pregnant if I'm raped by a woman will I?

And she's not likely to be hugely stronger than I am is she?
And that the chances of a female being a sexual predator are TINY compared to the KNOWN FACT that 99% of sexual criminals are MALE.

Total homophobic unadulterated BULLSHIT.

Men don't belong in women's spaces. No matter how they identify.

labs.la.utexas.edu/mestonlab/sexual-paraphilias/

'voyeurism is rare in women,'

... I'll stop now. There are many studies on this, and it's very clear that it's not women that women are concerned about, for good reason.

In response I would say that lesbians aren't men though and it's men that I'm afraid of. It's not lesbians who harass me when I leave the house, go to work, walk down a street, use a train station. I've been attacked by men, raped by men, beaten by men but not once have I experienced any of those things at the hands of a lesbian.

My lesbian 16 year DD doesn't perv over other girls or woman in the changing rooms in PE at school or when she goes swimming at my gym;she's there to change just like every other girl/woman in the changing room.

Likewise I'm not at all bothered by the openly lesbian couple and their lesbian friend who go to my gym,they are in the changing room for the same reason as I am.

I have never once had a problem with a lesbian in a changing room.

I have however, had the unpleasant experience of a man poking his head under the partition between the changing rooms at my local swimming pool. He was masturbating quite noisily which is how he gave himself away.

Lesbians don't generally do this in my experience. Only people born male seem to get off on frightening women.

It's a very male view isn't it?

It's pure projection. They claim to be pro LGBTQIA++ but they never hesitate to exploit other marginalised groups in the alphabet community if they think it will further their cause.