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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sarah Ditum reviews Grace Lavery’s book

158 replies

SpiderVersed · 07/02/2022 10:37

She’s got a point, the pun in the title is very good. But otherwise Lavery is saying the quiet part out loud.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d95d9e92-85e7-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=8d58838e7b97ce21a4181d7bff0f91df

OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 07/02/2022 13:58

@Abra1d1

The bit about the semi-erect penis and the miscarried foetus...

How insulting to women who've lost pregnancies. Biological women. Actual women, I mean.

Yes. Deliberately setting out to wound women. Funny, that.
SwissBall · 07/02/2022 13:54

Though I've not seen the school celebrating GL in the way they do Lee Child, also a former pupil.

Can’t think why.

It is really depraved, almost unfathomable depths of misogyny. Even most men wouldn't be able to dream it up.

Agreed. They make even the awful men seem almost benign because their misogyny is so visceral and seemingly unending.

ButWhereDidTheWindComeFrom · 07/02/2022 13:41

@FannyCann

I feel Sarah deserves a GinWineFootball for her commitment to the team, reading all these books and reporting back so the rest of us can avoid.
Agree.
DonkeySkin · 07/02/2022 13:36

Of all people to provoke, why choose women who have experienced miscarriage?

Womb envy. Lavery enjoys the idea of inflicting distress and pain on women who have done what Lavery never can do, which is create life.

It is really depraved, almost unfathomable depths of misogyny. Even most men wouldn't be able to dream it up. Probably only fellow AGPs can relate to the impulse that made Lavery write that sentence.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 07/02/2022 13:26

@Melroses

I think people need to read and understand this.

This is the world young transitioners are being drawn into, whether they understand it or not. Grace is just articulate and says the quiet bits out loud.

I'll read it, @Melroses. Doubt I'll understand it, but I do think it is important to read the "other side".

Agree, that is written to provoke outrage. It's a boring analogy. As if a disappointing erection could be anything like equivalent to a miscarriage - what an absolute buffoon.

I tried with Shon faye's book. Failed, but I tried. Same with Juno Dawson's. What is stark is how BADLY they write.

I am going to start buying these books as amulets against bookshelf inspections by Gwent police.

IvyTwines · 07/02/2022 13:22

I do find it extraordinary that families save up for years to send their children to supposedly prestigious, world-famous universities to be taught 'how to think' by someone like this.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 07/02/2022 13:20

@Helleofabore

Oh my!

Mumsnet gets a mention too.

That is going to be quite the read. It is surely so deliberately confrontational and offensive to get it talked about.

I wonder if that debate with Helen Joyce is going to go ahead. Roll on Lavery's promo tour.

I want tickets to that

PaleGreenGhost · 07/02/2022 13:16

There was another very pro trans ideology book by a transwoman recently which also obsessed (I want to use a stronger word) over miscarriage, wasn't there? It is, in very plain sight, an utter contempt for the lives and experiences of women.

I do not accept "I identity as a woman" from males who write this sort of thing. It is sick.

I could have had so much empathy for a male who didn't fit in at a posh boys school.

Well I genuinely hope this will be widely read. The sad thing is that I have a couple of "be kind" friends in mind whose eyes would really be opened by this book. But I could never recommend it because, like many women, they've actually experienced the devastation of miscarriage.

Lottapianos · 07/02/2022 13:13

'This person can write this and is celebrated. And JK Rowling has trigger warnings on her books for saying that biological sex exists.'

Well said. What an absolute mess we're in

teawamutu · 07/02/2022 13:09

Lavery apparently doing a launch event at the university of Exeter, of all places.

Tickets are free from Eventbrite.

QueenSue · 07/02/2022 13:07

Of all people to provoke, why choose women who have experienced miscarriage?

PrincessNutella · 07/02/2022 12:58

I don't know how to clean my brain from thinking about that book. Do I use Listerine? Soap? Or just gargle with bleach?

BraveBananaBadge · 07/02/2022 12:54

I couldn't deal with that weird, faux valley girl 'like, really?' writing style. I never can quite believe Grace is an academic.

As Sarah Ditum points out, this is a book that exists to provoke^^ so is probably best ignored. But I find it is always, always possible to dislike this person a little bit more every time they show up.

allmywhat · 07/02/2022 12:50

There's this weird "I am trying to be obnoxious, therefore if you think I'm obnoxious, I won" thing that a lot of Twitter denizens of the Wokoid cluster do. You know, the "pee pee poo poo" lot.

I think Lavery is considerably older than most of those, but it strikes me as the same mentality.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 07/02/2022 12:48

@LilithOfEden Flowers

I am so sorry for your pain. I have had miscarriages as well but never held my angel babies. I cannot imagine the pain of that.

This person can write this and is celebrated. And JK Rowling has trigger warnings on her books for saying that biological sex exists.

I am at loss for words.

Lottapianos · 07/02/2022 12:39

'her penis...feels “as though I were laying my own miscarried foetus across my hand”.'

Absolutely fucking vile. Could not be more offensive or more contemptuous of women

And the sexy bathroom stuff ... Weeing, pooing, wiping your bum, changing bloody pads and tampons. Yes, thrilling stuff 🙄

HermioneWeasley · 07/02/2022 12:32

Lavery is vile.

SpiderVersed · 07/02/2022 12:24

@LilithOfEden Flowers

I felt sick reading that too. Monstrous thing to say.

OP posts:
LilithOfEden · 07/02/2022 12:18

What this bit: her penis...feels “as though I were laying my own miscarried foetus across my hand”.

Having once held my own miscarried foetus, whilst doubled over in pain, I am so looking forward to the lib fem cheer leaders to tell me how vile I was, in all my cis het privilege, to have done such a thing, and how brave and stunning Miss Lavery is for her celebratory penis book.

I hope Sarah Ditum doesn't get PTSD having to read this type of utter filth.

Letterasaurus · 07/02/2022 12:15

'sexy wees' Envy (not envy)

Melroses · 07/02/2022 12:09

I think people need to read and understand this.

This is the world young transitioners are being drawn into, whether they understand it or not. Grace is just articulate and says the quiet bits out loud.

Helleofabore · 07/02/2022 12:05

Yes, but it seems a trans person using it as a literary device expects to get away with it... because... intended offensive to lift book sales.

(they will come out with, OF COURSE I didn't mean it. Gosh, how hateful of you to hold me to a high level of showing any sensitivity at all)

NonnyMouse1337 · 07/02/2022 11:53

The bit about the semi-erect penis and the miscarried foetus...

Yup, vile.

Abra1d1 · 07/02/2022 11:49

The bit about the semi-erect penis and the miscarried foetus...

How insulting to women who've lost pregnancies. Biological women. Actual women, I mean.

Pluvia · 07/02/2022 11:39

Lavery is married to Daniel, a trans man — a union that they consider “extremely gay” but from the outside looks more like heterosexuality with pretensions.

Loved this.